Why not a deep relief base on Vandercook #4

Jonathan- you are correct: as long as base + plate height = type high, you will be fine. With a Vandercook, you typically don’t need deep-relief plates, but they will work.

Jonathan

There is no problem running the thicker plates and shallower base on a Vandercook and thus sharing it with your C&P. No point in buying another base.

Thicker plates in the .058—.060 range can be a bit more problematic and have less fidelity than the thinner plates in the .037—.039 range, but if these considerations are not a concern, you are set to go.

Gerald
http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

I know lots of people who just use the deep relief base on the vandercook. I dont see it being a problem - just make sure you order the right plates from boxcar :)

The base you have is fine. You can also use the steel backed plates by using masking tape around all 4 edges. Of course make sure no dirt, oil, solvent is present. Let’s say a customer has already got the .060 steel backed…..they are the same thickness as the adhesive backed KF-152, etc.
You could have your base cut in half so you can use separately and put back together for larger plates.

Another option is 16 gauge copper plates which are .064. Tape them around the edges with masking tape, making sure no dirt, oil, solvent is present.
Make sure the edges are smooth, use a file if needed.
Since your base is .858 the total will be .922 so adjust your rollers and packing. 16 gauge copper is available at good prices from Hodgins Engraving in New York. Have them leave 1/4” metal around your images for taping. Copper works better than poly for small type with heavy impression.

I forgot to mention an important caution. When using the tape around the edges method, you must keep checking to make sure the plate doesn’t move.
I printed 2000 2 color cards on the Windmill with no plate move….I’ve not tried 2 color on a Vandy yet.

Gerald,

You said “Thicker plates in the .058—.060 range can be a bit more problematic and have less fidelity than the thinner plates in the .037—.039 range”

Can you expound on this? Why do they have less fidelity? And what kind’s of problems?

Thanks,
Jonathan

Gerald may have other reasons, but here’s my perspective: If you have a plate with consistant elements, such as a page of text type, thicker plates are fine. When you get plates with varying elements, like type along with solids or along with isolated lines or dots, then the thinner plates might handle both with a single exposure because there is a shallower body that needs to be formed. To do such variations with thicker plates then you get into masking and multiple exposures, and few want to do that. On the thicker plate a given exposure, suitable for blocks of type, may give barrel-shaped dots or undercut line segments requiring longer exposures, which then fill in the counters of the type. You might get a good first proof from a barrel-shaped dot but it could fall off the plate before you are done printing.
So you could say thinner plates have a wider range.

Jonathan

I think parallel_imp’s explanation should suffice. My only further explanation would be that plates in the thicker range are not necessarily formulated for letterpress, though they are in the maximum range it will tolerate. Steel-backed plates in this configuration seem to work out well but there are numerous reports here that polyester-backed plates are problematic, mainly I think, because of the implicit lack of rigidity to the plate’s floor, plastic is not as rigid as steel. There is built in stress, especially when combined with the exposure concerns (as mentioned above). The thicker plates were originally formulated for molding processes, and this includes letterpress embossing dies. But to extend that quality to deep impression as a routine way of printing, well, I guess you get what you fail to consider.

Gerald
http://BielerPress.blogspot.com

Five years ago I started with a deep relief plate since Boxcar Press recommended it for beginners. It worked well. However, 12-18 months later, the thicker plates were curled. Most were impossible to use, even after I applied new adhesive backing. So I changed to standard thickness plates and ordered a new base. These plates do not curl nearly as much and I have used some for three years now without a problem. I just wanted to caution folks who are thinking of going deep relief. It was an expensive mistake for me.

This is an old post. Part of the reason for the deep relief bases is that some of the machines have a ton of wear and many do not have adjustable roller height. My oldstyle pilot has over 1/10” of wear on the rails. A deep relief base can be used to work around the wear.

In my case I got some of that 1/16” thick brass strip from the K&S precision rack at the True Value. I cut it in half, put some flexograph tape on the back and formed it around the rails. Then I just stuck it on. Makes it easy to replace, especially since the brass will wear more quickly. Doesn’t quite get me where I need to be, but I am 3d printing plates, so thickness is infinitely variable.

This is an old post. Part of the reason for the deep relief bases is that some of the machines have a ton of wear and many do not have adjustable roller height. My oldstyle pilot has over 1/10” of wear on the rails. A deep relief base can be used to work around the wear.

In my case I got some of that 1/16” thick brass strip from the K&S precision rack at the True Value. I cut it in half, put some flexograph tape on the back and formed it around the rails. Then I just stuck it on. Makes it easy to replace, especially since the brass will wear more quickly. Doesn’t quite get me where I need to be, but I am 3d printing plates, so thickness is infinitely variable.