Palace Script alignment

I would like to ask whether any BriarPress members know whether Monotype palace script always aligns, or whether, like other Monotype faces it will only align with other Palace script from the same mavhine, set-up in exactly the same way? I have some 14pt Monotype Palace script acquired from an English Seller on eBay, and would like to acquire more to supplement it, but would like to know whether it is safe to buy other lots of English Monotype Palace Script of the same size to supplement it, or whether it would be better to hold off and concentrate on acquiring the Stephenson Blake foundry version (which I presume does have consistent alignment over different castings. Thank-you in advance for your help!

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Monotype type from different shops would not be guaranteed to line up with any other casting of the same. A font of Palace Script matrices should have come with an alignment mat, however it only has to be off a little to cause problems.

A company like Stephenson Blake or ATF would maintain the alignment for re-orders. At best, if someone has more type for you, samples could be sent to compare, however the odds are that it will not match.

If the price is right and S-B type cannot be found, the type could possibly be used for separate lines. If there were someone casting Palace Script today, of course, it would be great to order it all from one source.

Thank-you for a helpful and prompt reply Dan. That makes sense- I was just wondering whether the fact that Palace script was cast on a special slanted body meant that variations in alignment were not possible. I have heard that all the Palace Scrip matrices were sent to Latin America by Monotype at some point, so do not know of anyone casting it new, sadly. I think that I will hold out and try to acquire the S&B version gradually- using two or three different sets for different lines is a good idea, but I fear could easily become rather irritating and frustrating!

As Dan J. implies All Monotype from 5 Point up to 72 Point, Was/Is aligned to a recognised, dedicated system.
From 5 point to 14 Point, in normal Composition form, from 15 x 15 rows, to 15 x 17 rows, up to 16 x 17 rows, (Unit shift) most everybody *Toed The Party Line* i.e.used Monotype,s Slip Gagues which were engraved with a 4 figure number, derived from a precise calculation, via a mathematical formula, well documented on many sites and in most Monotype Info publications and sheets.

Even if the operators were not in possession of the appropriate *Slip* >with the Formula to hand, We just made our own,??? normally cast a 12 point space *Miked Up* to the exact 4 figures.

The alignment Chart(s) are extensive and can be found.!!

There are anomolies by default, or force of circumstances, when, for example, an off body size, was requested, i.e. 9 on 11, to save 2 Point Spacing, and *The House* did not posses the appropriate *Slip* even if such existed for Bastard sizes, and/or the job was not likely to Come Back, to a Man/Operator the established method was to cast 3 Em rules, turn the middle one upside down, in the Regular Alignment Gauge (Monotype,s) and as normal, wind the micrometer thread, precision ground edge, up and down to see which rule disappeared, indicating which way to bring all three into perfect line, via the adjustments on the Caster.

In actual fact, this method was superior to the original, because the minutest error was amplified 100%, (think about it) as opposed to the dedicated method, because with or without Eye Glasses, with or without, the normal watchmakers style eyeglass, everybody saw the 3 em rules in a perfect straight line, meaning that every *Tom*, *Dick*, and *Harry* wherever/whenever got the same result.!!
Especially when *Mumping* was rife, i e, although we were all (Theoretically) in competition, on the last Knockings, we were all doomed anyway, *Monotype* were not too impressed because they sold less and less, Matrix Cases and associated, because, Those Darstardly, User,s were cheating the system… Mumping, as in, lease/lend, borrow.!.

Didot sizes (slip gauges) were factored in as normal, but if a *Didot* size diecase was available, 10D which should be on 11 Point body, and NO, 11 Point mould was available, it 10D, (didot) could be cast on 10 Point Mould, 3 EM rules were generally the preffered answer, most everybody appreciated and understood, or *Needs must when the Devil is driving* in this case LITHO???

From 14 Point up to 72 Point with Display mats , from the lending library in Redhill,U.K. Every Box of Mats/Matrices had/has a dedicated Mat that exactly fills the top of the full size Quad, (whatever set) the mat, can possibly be described as a reversed out Maltese Cross, again seen used by most everybody, exactly the same for eventual alignment.

Apart from the anomolies as above, which are virtually non existant, as regards *MONOYPE* Palace Script, with >wrong alignment< would seem to be impossible.

On Sight, at present, 7 inch, x 22 inch galley, 95% full of 18 Point Monotype Palace script, and proofed up, gleaned over many years, from several sources, for eventual, supply and help to new Would Be printers, (A),- (a), Fonts to suit.

Mouldtype, Palace Script, was an alternative to Monotype Palace script, but was not interchangeable, whatsoever, because, Mouldtype employed the completely Hooked body, but still had to involve, Beginning and Ending, dedicated spaces, to utilize normal spaces, to fill out centered lines, if normal Mouldtype spaces were at a premium, which they frequently were and still are, small collection on sight.!!


Mouldtype, for some reason never established, or identified, did produce Their Palace Script, size for size, with at least 3 different alignment(s) of the same size face, on the same size body, denoted by scribed lines to the rear of the body, opposite the *nick* ????

It is just possible, that with an extensive trawl of Briar Press archives, etc. may show the Author as the *Postee* of the item, regarding the Monotype Moulds & Mats for Palace Script being Shipped to South America, …. with considerable help from Monotype in Redhill and several potential address,s we tried, with no success, One Reply only, in the Negative, with several Beautiful Stamps.

May be in the B.P. archives, Under… Monotype Mick,… hacked into, hence, Mick on Monotype.

I don’t have a great deal to add to Mick’s extensive post except to say that (even with type aligned to the same standard) there can be problems, simply because small errors can be compounded: if one caster put the type a minute amount, and another a minute amount lower, suddenly there can be a visible difference between two founts, even though they’ve both been aligned to the same standard. That’s why, when casting new type, foundries will normally ask you for an alignment sort.

As said above, you’ll *probably* be fine in mixing your two types, but I’d proof a few new sorts against your existing type before putting it into the same case - I’ve had to sort through a couple of cases that had mixed alignments before, and it’s an absolute nightmare.

Finally, if it’s a face you like, I’d get it while you can: the slanted body was cast on the specially-made ‘Palace Script’ mould - not many were made, and I imagine even fewer survive now.

Thank-you both for your thorough replies- it looks like the answer is to go for it and acquire more when the price is right, but the advice to proof a few sorts together before going ahead and mixing different lots together is a very good idea! Thanks again for all your help!

Can`t work out where You are on the Planet, give us a clue Off Line maybe, but in any case, in this day and age Distance is not so important, or shipping, up to a point.!!

The reason, I have a small amounts of Palace Script, Mouldtype and Monotype that I like to Help the *New Ones* with, Money is not the Be all and end all, if I make a little profit for Tiny Fonts, it is just re invested on Monotype equipment, and/or where practical part Ex. for reusable Monotype metal.???

Give me a call, E mail etc. may be able to help, might possibly be able to ship tiny *Top Up* font, even odd letters possibly. Could possibly >Post< to You 2 or 3, distinctive characters for reference re alignment, with a watchmakers eye glass, it is quite feasible…….Good Luck

The Printing Museum in Wellington, New Zealand, has access to a rare set of Palace Script moulds, matrices (14,18,24,30,36pt) and special parts (latches, pushers, carriers and holders etc.). So theoretically (time permitting) any of those sizes can be cast and checked against any existing alignments. Enquiries always welcome: [email protected]

Mick- will contact you by email- thanks!
Interesting to know that Palace script can still be cast, and matched to existing alignments. I will certainly keep that in mind! Thanks!

G. o S. A. Apologies, if My ramblings have implied that Palace Script in either Mouldtype, or Monotype can still be cast here U.K. I am 100% certain that that is not so. … I do have limited amounts of Mouldtype and Monotype Palace Script, as above, to help those in need, as/when.? … Mick