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Type size names (German style)

Dear all,

Firstly, I hope I have chosen the correct discussion topic for my querry - I am trying to document the names of type sizes, as used in Romania prior to WW2. We have followed closely the German terminology (6 - Nonpareille, 8 - Petit, 10 - Garmond/Korpus, 12 - Cicero etc.). Beyond 36 - Kanon, I have only found, in one Printing textbook of 1939, the names for 48 (4 Cicero) as Missal, and 72 (6 Cicero) as Sabon. However, I have found no other references to these names, in either older or newer books or standards. As I don’t read German, and found no information on the net, I wonder if any of the printers here, accustomed with the German letterpress terminology, can give me a hand in naming type larger than 36 (and, maybe, a bit of history behind the name).

Thank you very much in advance,
Ion

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You could contact Martin Z. Schröder in Berlin for the information.

I might be able to help you. I’m out of office these days, but when I’m home in the weekend I will try to find some material for you and post a link to it on my flickr – with some explanations :-)
Gott grüß die Kunst
Jens

let me first say I do not know any German letterpress terminology but I found these two German Text founts in an old Figgins Type book, as you can see five line pica which equals 60 point type and the other two line double pica which I take to mean 48 point type, I have measured with a type scale and seems to be about right, if we were using wood poster type we we would say nowadays say 4 and five line height so I am wondering if bigger measurements of your types would be measured by Cicero as it is 12 point, I dont know if this helps any, perhaps a German type expert might help you out’
John.

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http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schriftgrad

Ion, if you still need a little history for each size i can try to write it down/translate it for you … event there aren’t any special stories for any sizes greater 36.

Thank you very much for all your replies!

Jens, yes, if you do have some time, I would love to see what you could scan from your documentation!

I was able to find on Wikipedia.DE the names and brief history - thank you Dr. Mohr - and understood the text with Google translate.

Best regards,
Ion

In my old schoolbook I found the following:
36p = 3 Cicero = Kanon
40p = Doppeltext = grobe Kanon (less used)
48p = 4 Cicero = Kleine Missal
60p = 5 Cicero = Grobe Missal
72p = 6 Cicero = Kleine Sabon
84p = 7 Cicero = Grobe Sabon
96p = 8 Cicero = Real
108p = 9 Cicero = Imperial
(© 1980 Verlag Beruf & Schule, Itzehoe; ISBN 3-88013-155-4)
Carsten.

GERMAN TYPE SIZES
*Figures Indicate French Point Size
4 Diamant
5 Perl
6 Nonpareille
7 Colonel
8 Petit
8.5 Bourgeoise (Borgis)
9 Corpus (Garmond)
10 Discendian
11 Cicero
12 Mittel
14 Tertia
16 Text
24 Doppelcicero
28 Doppelmittel
32 Kliene Kanon
40 Grobe Kanon
64 Kleine Sabon
68 Grobe Sabon
80 Kleine Missal
96 Grobe Missal
*Figures Indicate French Point Size
From The American Dictionary of Printing and Bookbinding, 1894

Hallo Stanislaus, what is the source of your table/list? Internet-text or a book/foto? I think, it is a little bit messed up.
For example:
24=Doppelcicero, 12=Mittel? Cicero=12 and14=Mittel.
Carsten.

Hallo Winkelhaken:
The source of my table/list is shown on the bottom of my table/list. It is on page 229 of the above-mentioned book. Please keep in mind the book is dated 1894. Lots of things change in a hundred years or so. I’ve gone back and proofread the listing again. Please don’t shoot the messenger!
Stan

Thank you very much Carsten and Stan!
Carsten’s references are exactly the same as I had in one of the best printing manuals of the ’30s in Romania. But the author didn’t go beyond 72. Other two manuals stopped at 48, while the last standard for letterpress goes up only to 24.

According to “Handbuch für Schriftsetzer” (1934) the list looks like this:

32 Kleine Kanon (Doppeltertia)
36 Kanon (or Canon)
40 Grobe Kanon
42 Grobe Kanon
48 Kleine Missal
52 (no name)
54 Missal
56 (no name)
60 Grobe Missal
66 Grobe Sabon
72 Sabon (Sechscicero)
84 Siebencicero
96 Achtcicero

The same book includes a different table were 48 isn’t named “Kleine Missal” but “Missal” and “Grobe Missal” is 54 and not 60.

Sorry for the delay
Here my contribute http://www.flickr.com/photos/bogtrykkeren/8245914089/
Gott grüß die Kunst
Jens

Thank you Lars!
Thank you very much Jens - really really useful!
Best regards,
Ion