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Removing the pinion gear C&P 10x15 NS

Hi all, I am moving my new ( to me ) press through a 36” door into my basement ( ground level entrance ). I understand to get it down to the 31.5 I need to partially strip it which requires me to remove the pinion gear. I read on a few posts that I should use a gear puller for this? Does anyone have any photos/videos of this process? Just want to have an idea of what I am doing so I can bring the right tools with me. I will just strip it at its current location so that I can unload it directly to its final destination. Any help / advice would be greatly appreciated.

Cheers

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First, remove the key, then it should slide right off the shaft. If the key is too tight, find someone to help you remove it.

Thank you Bill, I will have a few people with me for the move, so I do not need a gear puller for this? Are there any tools required to remove the key?

It depends on the key. Some are very stubborn, others fall out regularly unless care is taken to shim them in place. I’ve seen both kinds.

A gear puller may work, but you would be fighting the key, which is tapered to keep it in place. It should be L shaped. Use a wedge or slide hammer to pull it out first. If that doesn’t work soak it overnight with Kroil or some other penetrating oil and try again. If it still doesn’t come free you may have to drill it out. Sometimes tapping the pinion gear toward the press body helps loosen the key. The best way is with a pipe that fits around the shaft (and key). Hitting the pinion gear directly risks damaging it.

You may be barking up the wrong tree (with respect to other learned friends) it would seem that if you succeed in removing the aforementioned gear, your shaft would still be sticking out at exactly the same distance, which would imply that pulling the shaft out would possibly be the only option? If however removal of the gear solves the problem, since a long time ago there was (generally) only three (3) types of key arrangement on machines, that far back first was the woodruff key which was a quarter moon shaped key, located in the corresponding slot in the shaft, but still locating in a straight slot in the gear or pulley, and could be pulled or extracted as usual. ***(see footnote) next would have been a completely straight square section key 50% in the shaft and 50% in the pulley pulled, or extracted as normal. Then if a tapered key was utilised, it would have been normal to see a lug on the key beyond the limit of the pulley to facilitate extraction with a small wedge. If however there is no lug, it should not be rocket science to drill and tap a small thread into the key and use a small bolt as an extractor, with possibly small taps with a copper or hide hammer, on the gear, when the extractor bolt is under just a little pulling pressure. It was also quite common to find a small allen key in the hub of the gear, on top of the key for added locking, maybe one there still!!! sunk in and covered in ink, oil or just many years press dirt. Check it out maybe. > > > > > > *** If in the absence of pullers of any description for a long long time I have utilised standard steel (not aluminium of course) quoins as extractors, or pushers rather than pullers :- THUS 2 quoins and as many spacers progressively to suit (like locking up a heavy forme on a big chase) space the quoins at 180 degrees between the pulley and the main frame and push progressively, 2 pairs of the largest size of Hempel Quoins work very well, WHEN/IF all else has failed. Good Luck, Mick

You may be barking up the wrong tree (with respect to other learned friends) it would seem that if you succeed in removing the aforementioned gear, your shaft would still be sticking out at exactly the same distance, which would imply that pulling the shaft out would possibly be the only option? If however removal of the gear solves the problem, since a long time ago there was (generally) only three (3) types of key arrangement on machines, that far back first was the woodruff key which was a quarter moon shaped key, located in the corresponding slot in the shaft, but still locating in a straight slot in the gear or pulley, and could be pulled or extracted as usual. ***(see footnote) next would have been a completely straight square section key 50% in the shaft and 50% in the pulley pulled, or extracted as normal. Then if a tapered key was utilised, it would have been normal to see a lug on the key beyond the limit of the pulley to facilitate extraction with a small wedge. If however there is no lug, it should not be rocket science to drill and tap a small thread into the key and use a small bolt as an extractor, with possibly small taps with a copper or hide hammer, on the gear, when the extractor bolt is under just a little pulling pressure. It was also quite common to find a small allen key in the hub of the gear, on top of the key for added locking, maybe one there still!!! sunk in and covered in ink, oil or just many years press dirt. Check it out maybe. > > > > > > *** If in the absence of pullers of any description for a long long time I have utilised standard steel (not aluminium of course) quoins as extractors, or pushers rather than pullers :- THUS 2 quoins and as many spacers progressively to suit (like locking up a heavy forme on a big chase) space the quoins at 180 degrees between the pulley and the main frame and push progressively, 2 pairs of the largest size of Hempel Quoins work very well, WHEN/IF all else has failed. Good Luck, Mick

Mick - you have to remove the pinion gear in order to remove the drive shaft.

Bill, if the object of the exercise was to remove the shaft eventually, why did we go all round the sun to get to the moon, when if the shaft is only to be pulled out from the opposite side, to the pulley would it not be the simplest operation, to merely use a brass or copper drift, a few thou less than the bore of the shaft and tap the shaft through, the gear and then catch it and the key, as they fall off and then continue tapping the shaft out past the points of wear, and all the junk on the shaft which nobody normally bothers to remove, until the shaft gets stuck. And is it possible that the opposite end of the shaft to the pulley has only a retaining collar or a much smaller easily removable gear/pulley or even a large diameter thrust washer bolted into the end of the shaft. Of course the shaft may well have a cog or a pinion as an integral part of the shaft and has to be removed in one direction only, it must be worth a few seconds further investigation? Bill your observations are noted and appreciated, When it comes to not being able to see the wood for the trees, (guilty your honour) I am happy to be put right and constructive comments still help the learning curve, Thanks Mick

Mick - C&Ps use keys to fasten the flywheel, pinion gear, and in some cases a drive wheel - to the drive shaft. The drive wheel and pinion gear are on the same side.

The flywheel side has a retaining collar mounted on the frame, and once the pinion gear (and possibly a drive wheel) have been removed from the other side, the shaft can be pulled through. C&Ps have one of two different kinds of drive shafts - a straight one for the motor-driven-only version - which is easy to pull through; and one with a “U” shaped crank - to accommodate a treadle hook. The larger hole in the frame left by removing the retaining collar will allow the “U” crank to pass.

And you can’t get at the pinion gear key from behind - as Arie Koelewyn suggests, a slide hammer is the best way to pull it.

Hi Bill, thank you for your input, I am acquiring a later model according to the serial number, it looks to be very well cared for and has a motor. I am assuming it is the motor version - is there anything special I should do to strip it down? Special tools etc?

Sorry, I see you mentioned a slide hammer, is that for the crankshaft version or both? Not new to presses and printing though this type of thing is foreign.

The slide hammer would be for removing the key from the flywheel, pinion, or drive wheel - on either version.

If the drive shaft is straight, it’s a “motor only” version. Either version may use a motor, but only the “U” shaft allows you to use a treadle.

As a general rule - don’t disassemble any more than you have to - old cast iron is surprisingly fragile. And on the Old Style at least, many of the bolts use non-standard threads - so if you break or lose one, you sometimes have to have a replacement made.

Listen to people who know the specifics. The only way to remove the crankshaft of a C&P is to remove the tapered gib-head that holds the pinion gear on the right, then to free the pinion gear, to remove the bearing on the left side (the right side doesn’t haave clearance for a crankshaft), and withdraw the crankshaft through the oval hole on the left. That is just how all OS and NS C&Ps are. Square keys and Woodruff keys are not original. I have seen one instance where somebody put a square key where a tapered key should have been, and there was damage to the keyways because of that.
If the tapered key does not come out easily, then as already stated driving the pinion gear inward, taper away from taper, is the solution. Pulling the pinion out without removing the key will just force taper onto taper and then it becomes immovable. Even a free gear may need some filing and smoothing of the shaft to return it to original diameter. It has probably seen some deformation since the gear was installed. The gear won’t come off over any obstructions.

Thank you everyone, I will let you know how this all turned out.. truck full of every tool I know and several I do not, come alongs, floor jacks, steel pipes, gear pullers and every other mention of just about anything I have seen here.. luckily this one only has to go 1 hour on the trailer.. the table top one was an 8 hour drive. Leaving in about 10 mins to go and get it. I will post the results tomorrow.

Cheers and thanks again!

well….

The press - Delilah - is now sitting in my shop. Not where I intended it to be but after that, I am just happy to have it home. The driveway to the garage where the press was, was on a very steep incline, the trailer gate was very steep as well. Moving 1500lbs up a gate with a come a long is not the easiest task.

The press is in great condition, brand new rollers. There are a few surface scratches on the ink bed but that is the worst of it. I need to get the rocker lock spring on as that had been removed and either hook up the motor or buy a treadle ( it has a camshaft ) I am going to go out and look at it to see what is involved in removing the camshaft. I think I may just dismantle the press completely and paint it…. I may just stand there looking at day after day as well.. beautiful machine.
Thank you again for all your input.

The rocker lock spring is a real bear to put back on. Works best to have a helper to slip in the cotter pin as you are compressing the spring from the back of the press.

I can’t remember ever doing it unless the bed and the platen were off the press. I pushed (hard) on the head of the rocker lock spring rod with a length of 2x4 while an accomplice lifted up the rocker lock, inserted the rod into the appropriate hole and slid in the cotter pin.

Can’t quite figure out why anyone would remove this spring unless the whole press was being taken apart.

What does the rocker lock do? ( they dont have those on the table top version :)

There is no rocker on a table top, thus you don’t need a rocker lock.

The rocker lock is pulled forward into a position that locks the rocker, which holds the platen, in place, and thus stiffening the frame, at the moment of impression. Pretty clever really.