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Installing a treadle trouble for a C&P.

Hello,
I’ve been trying to install a treadle on my C&P old style but all of the suggestions thrown my way have so far not been fruitful. I was told that the rod for the treadle needs to replace the existing back brackets and rod. This was to be a simple process of taking the nuts off the bolt ends of the shaft, and with a trusty mallet and dowel and a few strikes I should be able to get this existing shaft loose along with the brackets.

Well I kept trying to strike at it, but try as I may it would not budge a micrometer. I unfortunately mangled one threaded end of the shaft which I’m thinking I’ll have to hacksaw off a bit if I ever wan to use it again. I also tried a number of ways of unscrewing it…but that also doesn’t seem to work.

So my two questions are this: am I banging on my poor old press in the right place/way and is there any other way to disassemble this piece from the press?
Any wisdom on how this should or could be done will be welcome since at this point taking the hack saw to the existing shaft and brackets is looking like a great solution but there has to be a less neanderthal way about it.

Here is a link to images of the current damage and frustration:

http://www.gideonklindt.com/share/tredforweb/

Thank you.

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Wonderful. The photos help.

The very last photo and a couple of others show a small collar on the shaft on the inside of each leg. Usually they have a small square-headed locking bolt which screws in to touch the shaft and keep it centered. I have never seen one with bolts and threads on the end. The shaft usually stops at the edge of the hole, flush with the leg. Check that the two collars don’t have bolts broken off in them. You need to make sure they both are free to move and rotate on the shaft. After that get a pipe almost the size of the shaft and try that to drive out the shaft. To keep from damaging the end of the shaft, use a piece of wood as a cushion. WD-40 or other bolt loosening solutions on the collars and shaft are a must. There should be two oil holes on the top part of the leg where the shaft goes through. Also put oil or WD-40 in them. You will probably need a heavy hammer, at least a meduim weight sledge. Good luck

Are you sure you need to remove that rod to install the treadle? My recollection (maybe faulty since I haven’t looked at a C&P for some time! ;-) is that the treadle has two clamps on the back end that clamp onto the rod; if there are just holes for the rod then you will probably have to remove the rod to slide it through the holes. Is it an original C&P treadle or a reproduction? Examine the collars carefully to be sure they’re not machined as part of the rod — the rod is a structural part of the frame and the collars must be tight on it to allow tightening the nuts on the outer ends. If there’s no set screw in the collars then I’d say they have to stay. Might be easier to have the treadle machined to make the clamp arrangement.

It appears from the photos that the part of the shaft that is between the frame is of a larger diameter than the threaded ends. If that is the case no amount of force is going to remove the shaft - it wont fit through the hole - it could only be done by removing a frame. The treadle I installed on an 8x12 new style had a ‘U’ shape to the end that fit over the shaft and was then secured by bolts the closed the top of the U. Removing the shaft was not required. Pictures of the treadle might help formulate a solution.

Best regards,
Jeff Brandt
Wizard Creek Press

I have an 8 X 12 C & P old style completely disassembled and in storage. The rod you are attempting to remove can only be done by removing the entire side frame of the press. I can’t remember which side I chose to remove first but basically the entire press had to be taken apart before I could do this.

Is it possible that your treadle is designed to attach to the hinge pin (rod) that the frame for the bed and ink disk pivots on? This rod can be driven out once you disconnect the side links (arms) and lower the frame to the floor.

Updated. I went through this EXACT scenario this weekend. Was this a treadle from Hern, with eyelets rather than clamps? I feel your pain, my friend.

As others said, you will NOT be able to remove this pin by driving it through the holes - it is solid metal, not a pin encased in a sleeve, as I originally thought.

At the risk of inviting derision from other readers, I ended up cutting mine out with the help of a skilsaw and replacing it with the pin supplied by Hern. I know it’s probably heresy to remove an original part this way, but what can I say, I needed the treadle more than I needed the original pin. Good luck.

Proving once again that “half vast is sometimes not as good as not vast at all”. The problem with this solution is that the rod no longer braces the side frames unless the one supplied by Hern is a rod in a sleeve the correct length to space between the side frames and the correct diameter to fit the holes in the treadle. I guess I would still prefer to machine the top half off the Hern “eyelets” after boring them to the diameter of the existing rod, and make half-round clamps to hold the treadle on the existing rod. But maybe the loss of rigidity isn’t an issue if you will never want to move the press.

Good point, Ad Lib, which I neglected to address in my comment. The risk of losing rigidity by removing the pin is a good thing to keep in mind.

The loss of rigidity was a concern for me, but I don’t have the machining resources to modify the treadle as you had suggested (though it occurred to me). So, I did the next best thing, which was to build an extra layer of rigidity into the skids on which the press is connected, by adding some steel cross-members. Not as good as having the original pin, but hopefully better than nothing. Moving day, if it ever comes, will definitely be a tricky event.

My thinking was that the fact that Hern supplies replacement pins at all indicates that there are functioning presses out there without the original pin. So, given that my only options were to remove the original pin, or keep turning the flywheel by hand, (there’s no power in my shop for a motor), I took a chance.

So I have the treadle from Hern with the eyelets on the rod and not the one with clamps. It’s funny because Hern just has you say if you have a old style or not. I wish there were pictures or diagrams of the treadle installation online at Hern as I would have probably ordered the other treadle instead.

So the other Hern treadle does have clamps that would work with my press? Or is that something completely different? Could anyone maybe take a photo and post it of their clamp model?

Thank you everyone for your responses so far- you’re really helping me understand this all better.

My C&P is a New Style, not an Old Style, but I have had occasion to mess with treadles for both. On my New Style the treadle mounts (as a previous poster suggested) to the shaft which secures the back half of the press to the front half. On my New Style I had to drive that shaft out to mount the treadle, since there wasn’t enough clearance between the shaft and the inner frame.
My recollection is that the Old Style treadle also mounts to that shaft, not to the bracing rod, but I may be wrong—it’s been a while.
The New Style treadle, by the way, has u-shaped brackets, open on the top side, which go around that shaft.
Connor

By the way, the Old Style and New Style treadles are quite different. The Old Style is much more ornate, and the method of attachment to the shaft is somewhat different than the New Style, which is more streamlined. The more I think of it the more I’m sure that both of them attach to the shaft on which the back half of the press pivots.

Sorry about the multiple posts—meant to include this URL which may be of help:
http://www.garloo.com/chandler_and_price.htm
Unfortunately I can’t find any contact information on the site.

Mocaw, do you have any way to post a photo of your treadle, with closeup of the hinge end? Also, what size holes are furnished for the pivot rod?

Although sillier things have been done, it doesn’t seem likely to me that the treadle would have been designed so that it is necessary to disassemble the press frame to install or remove it. So there must be another solution.

I don’t know if this is the best way to do this, but this should lead you to another discussion of this topic on Briar Press, which might be helpful:

http://www.briarpress.org/3946

Looking at the drawing in this series it appears that there is an additional shaft on the Old Style that isn’t there on the New Style—because the NS has a cast-iron inner frame.
I absolutely did have to take my NS apart to put the treadle on, but it looks like you shouldn’t have to do that with the OS.
Connor

Mocaw —
What size is your press?
I have an Old Series 8 X 12, and it has the original treadle, with cast eyelets and a set screw to hold it to the shaft. Wih that type of treadle, you must slide the shaft out to put the shaft through the eyelets.
I also have an original treadle with clamps, but I think it fits a 10 X 15 Old Series.

Mocaw,

Go to Boxcar press
http://www.boxcarpress.com/flywheel/index.html

Down load - Chandler and Price/New Series/all/parts list/Download 0.5mb

It is a pdf of the NS press. You can see how the new style treadle attaches and also that it goes on the same shaft as the bed. The Old Style is not the same. If you have a micrometer, measure the thickness of the shaft and also the inside diameter of the hole on the outside. If they are the same, you should be able to get the shaft out. If not, look for another treadle.

I have posted two photos on my Flickr site showing how my treadle is attached. I hope this is helpful.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/82041636@N00/?saved=1

The Old Series press is beautiful, but your description of how the treadle is supposed to work is not correct. The single oil hole you refer to is actually a threaded hole for a set screw. The set screw binds the treadle to the shaft. The treadle and shaft are designed to move together as one. The treadle does not pivot on the shaft. That is why there are two oil holes for the shaft on the frame of the press, on the outside of the legs.

Kevin,

You are absolutely right. I checked mine when I got home. In the two photos, the set screw is missing. Funny thing is, I am working on a 7 x 11 now and it has no hole for a set screw. I was hoping by posting the two photos, to show another press with the treadle on it. I guess I confused the issue with the explanation on the photos.