10x15 Heidelberg windmill issue
Hey everybody, we just started a letterpress company about 4 months ago we jumped into and purchased the windmill, we just cannot ever seem to get a perfectly straight print, always seems to be off by a pt or less. We use a boxcar base, and polymer plates. ( the job we are running is 220 lb) we have tried tweaking what we know, but our knowledge of this machine is still limited, any advice is welcome!!
Use register guides otherwise seldom perfect.
Hi there-
I’m relatively new to the windmill as well, but a couple of things that I have learned in my short couple years are that:
Thicker stock with more ‘mass’ tends to bounce a bit when it hits the guides- specifically the side guide. So sometimes it is best to make a ‘flying dutchman’ on the top sheet to keep the sheet from moving out of position. I’d be happy to go more into detail about this.
Another thing is that different speeds will feed the stock into the guides with different amounts of bounce. So if you are running the machine slow at setup, and then increasing speed and not carefully checking the sheets, you’ll notice they may bounce a bit more when it is running faster.
Of course if you’re not running the register guides, this is moot- and what it really comes down to in that case is that your pile setup and managing of the stock are the biggest factors, along with the gripper differences from gripper to gripper (one being in a different alignment with the feeder than the other).
It really, really helps to start with lifts of stock that are trimmed very very neat to one another, consistently, but that won’t help if one gripper is slightly out of alignment with the other.
I personally really prefer running on the brass lays/guides for this reason; this mode drops the stock onto guides that pop up just before the instant of printing and sort of pincer the stock into the corner of the platen, which does allow for a very precise hairline register when set up properly.
Good luck!
Mike- unfortunately or windmill did not come with the guides.
Haven press- so we are not running with guides, It seems like our print is staying in the same spot, but when we go to die cut it is not staying consistent. So we assumed it was caused from running with no guides or one of our grippers is off.
If you want precise register you’re going to want to run guides. I’ve never encountered a windmill that delivered more than mediocre positioning without them.
As you seem to be new to running a windmill did you check the drawer in the lower right hand corner of the press to see if there were any guides in there? It’s a frequently overlooked catchall spot for extras.
Otherwise, ask around or contact Whittenberg Inc for a set of brass guides. They shouldn’t be too tough to locate. I also have an extra set of nickle guides I can sell but the brass ones are preferable.
nervous_john- we have checked the drawer, we’re going to check in with the guy we purchased from he is local so hopefully we will have some luck locating some. I will check back in, thank you!!
are you working on or off lays? if your working off lays then it could be your back plate on the pile stack, you can twist this plate there is an adjusting screw on the base of the plate but you must loosen the two bolts first also there is a gauge which you can read to align the paper
We were able to find loaner nickle guides, but we do not have the head stop. The guy helping us out said we could use another piece we have as a fill in. So now we have a new problem, when the gripper drops the paper into the guides it is not picking it back up every time. It seems to be only having this issue with one arm, we tried to bend it back but still no luck.
We were able to find loaner nickle guides, but we do not have the head stop. The guy helping us out said we could use another piece we have as a fill in. So now we have a new problem, when the gripper drops the paper into the guides it is not picking it back up every time. It seems to be only having this issue with one arm, we tried to bend it back but still no luck.
http://www.briarpress.org/?q=system/files/brass_0.jpg
This is what you need. Running without guides will never get you precise register.
The brass guides feed more easily, I would suggest locating a set of those. They’re on ebay if you want to find them.
Get or download a copy of the operator manual, lots of info there.
We have the manual, we have been referring to it but for some reason the guides are not working now. I’m sure it’s something we are missing. We have them set up and now our image is so crooked, after it drops the paper in the guides the arm will miss the sheet, sometimes. As I stated above, we do not have the side guide, so we were told another part would work, could this be the main issue?
So I don’t see how you would not have the side guide, unless someone ripped it off the machine. The side guide is standard equipment on these, unless you have a pre-guides machine and that would indicate you wouldn’t have the Bar they rest on in the first place, either.
Maybe someone removed it for parts, but it should be there!
Have you hand-operated the guides without the press running- with the small latch handle on the flywheel side of the platen? You should see a small side-guide pop up when the guides crest up to their register point; this fits into a small slot in the gripper arm, which the paper should be sticking into just a little if properly fed. The two long edge guides have a lateral motion towards the side guide as they lift up, causing a bit of contact with the side guide.
Otherwise, I would say the Nickel guides are a bit more difficult to use. If the stock has curl it doesn’t land on them easily. They’re narrower. They just don’t allow for as much stock variation; so stock overshoots them a lot, and this can be a problem.
With Brass guides it is seldom as much of a problem. If you use a pin in the guides, which should be run in the margin of the sheet and away from any base/plates/type/etc, the stock will sort of be forced onto the guide block as it comes up.
Anyhow, maybe post some pics of the area the side-guide would be?
Havenpress- really appreciate your advice/feedback!! So here is what we are currently working with. Seems like we are missing the piece that screws into the side guide. The top picture is the piece we were told to use as a temporary fix.
IMG_1085.JPG
IMG_1084.JPG
Yes, you definitely seem to be missing the side guide! It’s a small part with a screw to adjust it.
If you are getting a very crooked image, chances are one side of the sheet is missing the guide as it’s released. Try slowing the press down and watching as it feeds and see what you can see. It can be an effect of going too fast, or the thickness of the paper. That’s why I say try to slow it way down and watch it feed. Start speeding up if it works and see how it manages as you go faster.
Oh I’ll be darned, it did go missing! Very sorry to hear that. Apologies if my comment seemed to condescend, I was trying to be certain you knew exactly where it was in an attempt to aid you in determining that it was gone but yah, you already determined that for yourself- now I feel bad lol.
Anyhow, there’s got to be one on the parts shelf at http://www.whittenburginc.com - I would give them a call if I were you and see if they have one. It won’t be cheap but it won’t be an arm and a leg either, and it’ll make your press whole again.
Once you have that you can try using a pin in the guides to manage keeping the sheet from jumping off of them.
Jonsel-since we are running with the nickel guides I think maybe that is part of the problem and our missing piece we will slow it way down and try to get a good look. Thanks!
HavenPress- I didn’t think you were condescending, don’t feel bad, we are still new to this machine so I’m sure there is plenty we overlook! We will call them tomorrow and see what we can figure out, thanks for the help! I will update when we get it figured out.
Jonsel-since we are running with the nickel guides I think maybe that is part of the problem and our missing piece we will slow it way down and try to get a good look. Thanks!
HavenPress- I didn’t think you were condescending, don’t feel bad, we are still new to this machine so I’m sure there is plenty we overlook! We will call them tomorrow and see what we can figure out, thanks for the help! I will update when we get it figured out.
Yeah I finally gave up on nickel guides. Too many sheets were sliding down between the tympan and the guide. I didn’t need the narrower margin, so I just went to brass guides. I’ve still run into the occasional problem (mostly with thick stocks) where it will miss the guide completely because it doesn’t have time to settle. I usually slow the press down and that takes care of it.
A little update we are running nickel guides and now we are having an issue with every other one being off by a point. We assumed it was a gripper arm but we marked where they are picking the sheets up and it’s the same, when we run without guides we have the same issue.
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