Cylinder Diaphram

How many do you want? Call me, I have ‘em, I’m a printer in California, I run v50’s everyday. Carl 559 730-1596

I just need the one. I rarely run it any more, but I use it for crash numbering, it is so much faster than my Kluge. I have owned and run it since 1976. Such a work horse. Let me know how much and where to send the check.

Thank you for your rapid response,

Daniel Van Hoven
Madeira Printing
213 - 150th Avenue
Madeira Beach, FL 33708
(727) 391-6743

Hi Bud, Thank you for your phone call and being willing to sell me one. The check is in the mail and will go out tomorrow A.M.

Thanx Again!

Dan

Dan, your part went out today. Need any other help, just call, Carl.

Fantastic! I REALLY appreciate it. I have a question I hope you or someone can answer. I get a LOT of gear noise from the ink rollers. When I run it for perfing or scoring with the roller either hanging down or removed it is quiet. When I run it with the ink rollers engaged the guy in the unit next door tells me it sounds like a bear in heat. Any suggestions? The drive gear is nylon or plastic.

Dan, off the top of my head, I’m thinking that maybe your form rollers are set too tight, perhaps your rollers have become a smaller diameter due to wear or shrinking due to old age… and if that is the case, perhaps you have snubbed up the roller adjustments so tight to get your 1/8” stripe on the ink plate while setting your pressures… and in so doing you have pushed the roller rack into your plastic (or pheonlic) gear causing the noise. Another possibility, on the V50X models there is a 1 3/4” form roller, and a 2” form roller in the top rack. If somone put a 1 3/4” roller in a Standard V50 (as opposed to a V50X) to get your roller settings you would have to force the rack to the ink plate causing a bind on that plastic drive gear making it to make noise. On a Standard V50 all of it’s 5 rubber rollers should be 2” What is the condition of the bore in the plastic gear? Are the teeth in the plastic gear in good shape? I will sleep on it tonight, check the presses at the shop tomorrow and see if I can’t come up with other suggestions, Carl.

Dan, after sleeping it, I now realize most of what I said last night was bogus. The pressure between the roller rack and the plastic (nylon) gear is controlled by the levers and the studs on the roller rack, so that leaves excessive roller pressure between the form rollers and the vibrator roller….or lack of lubercation….or worn out parts in the roller rack itself or nylon gear as the noise makers. Going to work now, I’ll think more on it, Carl.

Hi Carl, I appreciate your input, I am done for the week but will check out first thing Monday morning. The rollers were replaced 2 years ago and I have not had to adjust them since. I had to adjust them tighter to the platen more than I liked or else the rollers would roll the numbering machines all over the place because they would rotate at a different speed than the press (I think)?

Dan

Dan, I use NOTHING but lock wheel machines,. My rollers are set with a very lite kiss to the ink plate. I looked at the press today and only thing I came up with was “too much squeeze on your settings”. Too much squeeze (roller presure) always caused me to have wheels rotate in my numbering machines. Carl

THANK YOU!
I installed the new diaphram yesterday, fired her up and the cylinder turned with paper fed or not. Checked the diaphram mechanism and it was holding the stop away from the catch on the cylinder shaft. I lengthened the cotter pin connection of the diaphram rod 1½ turns and it worked but not everytime. I had to loosen the diaphram rod a full 2 turns to get it right. Now the adjustment (locking splined nut) works. I also found the mechanism was gummed up, but now working well. THANK YOU for the part.

Now I no longer have to reset the machines when it skips a sheet, the cylinder no longer turns without paper on the feed board.

I will check out the roller adjustment tomorrow.

Follow up, When my ink is to sticky is when the numbering machines rotate. I use Count Bi-Matic machines.

I have run this machine since 1976 and this is the first time I had to figure out WHAT made the cylinder turn. I always knew it was vacumn, but never followed the path and controls involved.

Some guy on Ebay is parting out a V-50, I MEAN PARTING OUT, he even is selling the ink fountain screws individually. He yook the ENTIRE press apart.

PS: I will NEVER part with my Vertical, TO GOOD A MACINE! I wonder what more improvements might have been made had Offset not taken over Letterpress.

Dan

Dan, the vert is one of the best letterpresses ever made. People just miss understand them and or are afraid of them. Today I ran 30,000 sheets of 8 1/2 x 14 20# bond on one press, nice simple run, all I did to the paper was to put 2 perforations on it. While that was running on another vert. I was running a 4 part NCR, quantity of 5,000 impressions, putting on one perforation and 2 arabic numbering machines on that job. While those 2 jobs were running I was struggling on a 13x18 windmill running a 4,000 sheet run of diecut. The Verts just kept on runnin’… Great presses. People…. you can pick them up cheap, they don’t take much more space than a Windmill or a 12x18 Kluge, and they will make money for you. I can’t say enough good about them! Carl.

Here’s a shot of the verticals in my family’s old print shop in Findlay, Ohio.

findlayprint.jpg

The arm…. V36 in foreground, V45 in rear? wonderful presses. Love to see photos of print shops from the past. Carl

I will have my Father check for old pictures. My Grandfather started the Zeeland Print Shop in Zeeland, MI in 1908. My Father worked for him, I worked for my Father, and my Son worked for me. My Father bought a brand new V50 and the people from Miehle came and taught him how to run it. They also had a horizontal, that was a differant animal as well. those to long piston rods at each end to slow it down with a whoosh. I was just a little kid when they had that one. My cousin is running that shop now and they still have the V50.

i worked in an old letterpress shop at 16, back in the early 1960’s, they had a v50 and next to it was a miehle horizontal, they didn’t run it much but i remember seeing it run once, the thing i’ll never forget was the gas pipe that ran across the delivery, each sheet was dragged thru the fire i would guess to help dry the ink.

I have those flame driers on 2 V50’s and a Miller Simplex.
Not a good idea to walk away from the presses when using them. I often had to run offset jobs with heavy solids through the heaters to dry them when the customers were in a hurry.

i had a v50 with flame, was afraid to hook it up cause i know i’d have to try it.

Both the Horizontal and Vertical in my Dad’s shop had gas bars, and they used them almost everytime they ran to dry the ink (it was heat set ink). Hence the phrase “Hot Off the Press” came to be. My Dad’s presses had a control rod to turn the gas off if the press stopped. The gas bar had a pilot on the operators side and if the press stopped the full flame would go to pilot only. Still, he said they had to keep an eye on it and did have fires a few times.

This message is for Bud, I am in need of your expertise again. My V50 stopped feeding, I believe the diaphrams in the pumps went bad as there is no vacuum at all or very little. I’m in the middle of a 3M numbering job and I can’t finish it. Might you have pump diaphrams?

HELP!

Dan

PS: You sold me a cylinder diaphragm 4/25/2012.
I’m uploading a picture of my Grandfather taken sometime in the 50’s in his print shop. His V50 is behind him, you mentioned you like to see old print shop photos.

Grandpa VH.jpg

Dan, yep!…got ‘em. if you are looking for pump diaphrams you have the older style pump. That pump takes 2 of them….however there is an intake and a exhaust valve on each of the 2 cylinder heads. I should have them also. these valves are more of a flutter valve, not like a valve you would find in a gasoline engine. Call tomorrow after 10:00 California time. 1 559 730-1596, I ran my Verticals today, get more done on weekends. Bud.

Dan, in the photo you sent of your Grandfather, is that the same Vertical that you are now running? Brings back memories, last week I came across an old photo of my Pop standing in front of an old (was new then) Seybold paper cutter. He worked for WP Fuller Paints in San Francisco in their print shop. Upon inspecting a calendar hanging on the wall…it was Jan. 1950. Have a nice evening. Bud.

Bud, I wish I had that V50, my cousin is still operating that press in the same location as this photo, I saw it last year and it still looks like brand new. Miehle sent a technician to my Grandpa’s ship to train my Dad how to run the V-50, they bought it brand new, as they did with ALL their presses. Printing was a different business back then, all through the depression my grandpa was buying a new car every 2 years. Only during WWll did he stop buying a new one every 2 years, cuz they did not change the body style.

Hi Bud,

I pulled the heads on all 4 cylinders and none of them are cracked. I swapped the suction and air taps, now I have suction but not enough air. I am wondering if these diaphrams are just old and stiff, they are very stiff. How expensive are they? I checked the valves and all they are is a disk with a spring behind it, one of the springs is weaker than the rest, but that is not the cylinder with low suction. I pulled the valve assembly completely apart and cleaned and lubricated it, it was not very dirty at all, made me wonder why I took the time to do it. I don’t run it much since I moved into my garage, but when I need it, I need it to function. I don’t know if your diaphrams would be any more flexible than mine if they are the same age or not. I mainly need to know the cost, I’m slow this time of year so funds are very tight.

Thanks Bud,

Dan

Hey, is Carl and/or Bud still posting here? I’m having a problem with my V50. I was numbering today and the delivery table went ALL the way down, I’ve never had it do this before, but I can’t get the handle to push in to raise the table back up. I was just wondering if anyone on this site has had this problem and ow to remedy it.

Any and ALL help would be appreciated. I also might need 4 diaphrams for the pumps and a spring for one of the valves. The valves are just a disk about the size of a dime and appear to be fine.

Dan, yes it’s me…I’m back. Every time I raise the delivery stack, or for that matter the feed table, I make sure it is all the way up by giving the crank a final nudge or “wiggle” to be assured the cogs under the table have fully engaged. These cogs in time become “rounded” and will have a tendency to become disengaged if not fully seated (hence that is why I giggle the crank on every use.). You can change the cogs and put in stiffer springs but that is a lot of work. Now I have never had one become so stuck that I couldn’t crank it back up. Try taking a brass or lead hammer and gently tap the handle shaft in while pushing it in and putting pressure on the crank with your other hand. The assemble is pretty much straight forward and should pop loose. The pump rubbers (diaphrams) and the fine little spring for the valves I should have. I’ll check tomorrow. I know I have a complete pump. Bud

I was able to get the handle to push in, but it will only turn about 1 tooth up or down.It is already ALL the way down crushing the little springs on the of the delivery table. It will push in and allow that one tooth up, but acts like something is restricting the table from moving any further. I checked in the operators and parts manuals I have hoping for a good exploded view of the mechanism but they were no help.

Dan, really not a hard project to do. Only bad part is there are some paper pins involved in the disassembly. I have any part you may need. It’s most likely you may have sheared one of the taper pins. Jump on it….get your hands greasy. Bud

Thanx Bud, Ill pull it apart and check things out.

What about pump diaphrams?
Is there anyway to lengthen the delivery grippers? Once in a while the operators side miss and the sheet comes out 45° and the sheet falls out of the delivery crooked and makes a mess.
I appreciate all your help, my Father passed away 3 years ago, he was trained by Miehle how to run the press, so I can’t ask his help anymore. He learned on a brand new V50 with a gas bar. I remember watching him running it as a kid. Once in a while it would miss feed and stop over the gas bar and catch fire, he just grabbed it, tossed it on the floor and stomped it out.
I really miss him! His Father started Zeeland Print Shop in 1908, my Father was born in 1926 and started working there when he was about 10 years old.
They had a pedal operated Kluge, then a motorized hand fed Kluge, then came the Miehle horizontal, then the V50.
My son worked for me untill the real estate bubble burst and the BP oil spill. Business dropped off so much I had to let him go. Too bad, he was the 4th generation printer in the family, all with the same last name of my Grandfather. He really wants to work with me again, he tells me he has printers ink flowing in his veins. Haha

Dan, I have a few pump diaphrams…I think….I’ll check. As far as the delivery gripper problem goes…if the gripper that is giving you the problem is shorter than the others then just change that one. If they all appear that they should advance into the cylinder a bit more on the operator side….there is away to do that. The arms that hold the gripper bar are attached to a shaft at it’s base by a cap (much the same as a connecting rod cap in an auto engine.) However the cap on the Miehle is keyed to its shaft with a oblong key. You can loosen the bolt that holds the cap to the rod at the back end of the machine (bolt closest to you) say 1/8th turn, then tighten the bolt on the front end of the cap (bolt away from you) the same 1/8th turn. This will put the gripper bar closer to the cylinder. Consult a parts book to get in your mind what I’m trying to convey to you. As I recall the bolts you are working with take a 3/4” wrench…maybe 13/16. The 1/8th turn I gave you is a guideline, retighten bolts and try machine…take small steps.don’t move too much at a time. Hope I helped. I enjoy hearing about your history. What other type of machines are you running? Bud

Late to this thread, but YES, the vertical is a damn fine press!
They can often be had for less than a little table top press. People are just intimidated by them I guess

Scott, tell us about your press? Had it long? What type of work do you do on it? It’s really a shame that more people haven’t woken up to the unlimited potential that the V50 has to offer. Really a great press with a fairly small footprint. Easy to keep running with few breakdowns. Bud.

Hi Bud,
I also have an old black model 12 x 18 Kluge that I use for blind embosing and die cutting. A 1924 37.5” Challenge paper cutter with a hand clamp wheel, and a 1968 Chief 15 my Dad bought brand new. A Baum 17x22 443 folder, and a Rossback 2 head Saaddle Sticher and an Interlake stitcher.