Glue to use with a Potdevin

I have in mind a plan to try using carpet adhesive , i have to get it from the lock up to have a test but not managed to fit it in yet ,i will post a bit on it or add it here after i try ,you are in the uk are you not ?If thats the case i could pop a container with some in it in the post? It was for sticking the tile carpet down ,doesnt really ever dry but sticks like the proverbial . I have used it to coat the friction wheels on feeders and collators to make them grip when they really should be replaced ,a sort of gets you out of the ,more proverbial . I see you are other side of wet ,then i shall go get the bottle and write you up what it is ,I doubt they will want it burst in the plane ,whole load of giggling idiots getting off the plane your end that were probably stern old preachers when they got on !!!!

Hi Ray,
I think most folks use their P-200. Are you having bad luck with it? Are you running them through a roller press after or stacking them under weight?

Daniel Morris
The Arm Letterpress
Brooklyn, NY

The Arm NYC: I’ve been stacking them under weight.

Do you need a roller press or is applying pressure via a book press or weights adequate? I’d imagine a roller press can help squeeze out airpockets or whatnot better than just vertical pressure?

New Potdevin Rotary Presses cost more than a Vandercook!

I agree with The ARM. There are other manufacturers of glue and laminating products, but it is all basically the same in terms of use. I have found that like ink, too much glue causes issues such as the ones expressed by Lead Graffiti.

We use a roller press. I have tried to skip this and use a manual method, but the results are subpar. If you keep an eye out, you can get this type of equipment used, but it is still expensive. Reminds me of buying a good cutter.. expect to pay for what you get.

FL Lettra 220# + Onyx Stardream + FL Lettra 220#

Roller Press Back Side View

Roller Press Feed Side View

We use a Potdevin where I work. It is in use daily. I don’t know what sort of glue we use but it is water base. After the first piece has the glue applied, it is placed on the second sheet, then sent through a set of rubber rollers then placed under weight over night. We do work for many printers in the area, even letterpress printers. I have not noticed any effect on the impression. If you want, on Monday I’ll look to see what kind of glue they use, of course we get it in 55 gallon drums.
However, many people fail to realize that anything you do to a sheet of paper changes it, even if it is very slight. Printing, copying, folding, scoring. These changes may not be obvious, but can alter what you may expect. On some of our larger sheets, say 36 to 40 inches long, I have see stretch and distortion of 1/32 to 1/16 of an inch.
Just want you to be aware of these things

Kelly Press: let me know what kind of glue it is.

To everyone else: I didn’t say this before, but the sheets we are gluing together are already printed and aren’t just flat sheets to duplex. These are printed on Mohawk Superfine Smooth 120# (then duplexed).

One specific business card at issue (we print them 6-up) has a heavy impression of the logo on one side and the other side is fairly delicate type.

What I THINK we want to end up with is a sort of pillow, thin on the sides and thicker in the middle. Then when you apply any sort of pressure, even a few of these double sheets will have a noticeable extra thickness at the centers of the six cards.

If we then apply weight (as we are currently doing) to them and as the water in the glue is absorbed into the paper it is very easy to start pushing out the impression.

I’m fully in understanding that likely we cannot hold on to all of the impression we get when printing, but would love to hold onto it better than we currently are.

One possible additional step I was thinking about trying (and may try today) is to diecut out the business shape from some paper that I use to sandwich between the sheets that I’m trying to glue to try and put the pressure only near the edge of the card. That would pad the area around the edges of the cards but hold back pressure on the center where the impression loss is occurring. Anyone do anything like that.

One advantage it seems to the roller (depending on how much pressure it puts on the newly glued sheets) is that they are pressed together BEFORE the water in the glue has had the chance to actually dampen the paper itself which may help.

Thanks again for the help. Don’t quit on me now in this discussion.

I imagine there has to be a way to not destroy the impression. It seems like a majority of the business cards printed by Studio On Fire are printed with impression and then duplexed. They seem to be big supporters of the technique

We used to use the P-200, but when we reordered recently, I guess Potdevin had issues with their P-200’s and sent me the P-201 to use. The P-201 is like PVA/Elmer’s white glue, but worked fine for our duplexing needs.

Between the two, the P-200 had a harder finish when dry, and the P-201 felt a little more damp even after two days. However, the P-201 was much easier to work with than P-200 as the P-200 is super thick and viscous, whereas the P-201 was much more fluid. So when we pour it into the potdevin, the P-201 lays nicely in the tray, where as the P-200 is really clumpy and sometimes doesn’t get onto the rollers evenly. Both clean up easily with warm water.

Both do reduce the impression depth, but only very slightly where it’s acceptable. We run both sheets through the potdevin, let it dry for a minute or two before we attach them together, then press lightly with a plastic brayer, then weigh the stack down for a day or two to dry before we trim to size. We don’t run them through a press roller.

I literally used the P-201 a few days ago and have only used the P-201 on one project, so I will need to use it on a few more before I conclude which one is better. But on initial use, I actually prefer the P-201 as of right now due to the easier handling.

Just make sure you apply enough glue so they adhere nicely, but not too much where it’s too thick. When it’s too much, you can see the glue line when you trim down, and it takes longer to dry as well as slight curling. The impression depth doesn’t really get affected, only the visible glue line when it’s too much glue.

EK
http://simplyletterpressed.com

perhaps try the number at http://www.orchidesign.com

I don’t do duplexing any more. I am sending out the jobs to be done. when I did duplexing, I used a Padding Glue with a foam roller and my EZ27 laminator as a roller press. I even had the heat on medium.
I hated to do it. soon as I found someone who does a good job of it, I stopped doing it. it is only for 20x26 parent sheets, before they are cut down to be printed. 1ply Lettra with 100lb. coloured cover stock can go trough the laminator without roller adjustment.
for two sided business cards, one day I would like to convert my cannibalised AB Dick to a collator infeed-print with glue-roll press together machine.
how is hot melt glue working for paper duplexing? what are they using to duplex Lettra together?

by the way, what kind of a duplexing technique is this? Lettra 220lb., two sheets ( 20x26 ) out of 50 came like this in the original package. these are shipped only to Canada, or you guys in the US are getting them too?

splice.JPG

That last picture looks like a web splice—but the mill should have pulled that sheet out.

Back in day one shop I worked at used liquid dextrin (food grade adhesive?). However, they didn’t duplex stock. The only project that came close used wallpaper paste and a fine paint roll.