online source for Soy-based letterpress inks

Hi there,

I’m in Portland, too. I use Van Son Rubber Base Inks and am pleased with them, but was just told about soy-based inks available from Gans Ink in PDX. www.gansink.com, I believe. Let me know how you think they print.

Lynn

Van Son sells SonaPrint. I’ve used it and it a good ink, dries nicely, good color.

Casey
iLP

I’ve used Gans soy-based inks with good results. They’re in Portland, too. A couple of things about soy inks. They vary from manufacturer to manufacturer in the percentage of soy oil that is used (they add other non-soy oil), so you may want to compare that if you can dig out the information.

I have used soy inks for years but stopped doing so. The idea of using these inks is to help the environment but they skin in the can so you must take that skin off and that crusty gunk goes into the trash. I eventually switched to acrylic based inks (polyacrylic from Gans) because they don’t skin, I like the way they perform on the press and look on the sheet, and I’m not wasting ink. Not getting hickeys on the rollers is also a benefit of using an ink that stays open in the can and on the press.

For all of you die-hard environmentalists out there, you should know that the “soy-based” inks really AREN’T. Yes there is a SMALL amount of soy oil used in their manufacture, but it is pretty insignificant in the overall composition of the ink. BUT…being able to flash that “soy” label just simply allows everyone to feel better about the whole thing and think that they are “doing their part”.

It’s pretty much like the various “recycled” designations for paper. Some of the “recycled”-branded things in actuality only have a very small amount of actual recycled materials in them.

Things are definitely not allways as as they seem. Politics and games play a vital roll in all of this.

Sorry to bust your balloons.

Interestingly enough, I was watching a program tonight that discussed the problems and solutions of and for our dear planet and it mentioned that the Amazon rain forest is being cut down, in large part, to grow soy. I guess if you really want to wear the green badge, you might want to boycott soy based inks.

Somewhat off topic, but to follow up on Foolproof546’s comment on paper described as recycled, papermakers often don’t distinguish between recycling of mill waste, and recycling of post-consumer waste in their description of the final product.

Tony

I usually use Van sons but I want to start mixing letterpress with ink jet and was told that van son’s ink “reconstitutes” under the heat of a printer and smears and therefore I should use soy. Any experience in this combination before I buy something I may or may not need?
thanks

Print the ink jet part before you print the letterpress part and you won’t have to deal with that particular problem.

Gerald

“Print the ink jet part before you print the letterpress part and you won’t have to deal with that particular problem.”

Unfortunately, you can’t always do that. For instance, in order to have a supply of letterhead on hand for imprinting later with various small runs (sometimes just one sheet of correspondence) on the laser printer as it is needed.

For situations where you need to print first, using many oil based inks is usually okay. Rubber base should not be used. Checking with your ink manufacturer should be done beforehand but make sure you’re talking to someone who knows what they’re talking about (the clerk at XPEDX or Kelly Paper is not this person, you need to speak with someone at the ink company). You do not need to use inks such as Van Son Tough Tex or other inks that have been formulated for use on non-absorbent substrates such as vinyl, acetate, mylar, foil and Tyvek. You can, but that’s overkill.

When soy inks were introduced, an unintended benefit was found to be that they dried harder than other oil based inks. That’s why Van Son named their soy ink brand “Mega-Laser”, to help market the product as preferable for printing that would go through the laser printer. Soy based inks are preferable for this application and most manufacturers include a line of soy based inks.

A further note on soy based inks. I just talked to my roller rep at RotaDyne regarding specs for my Vandercook and during the conversation he mentioned that if you are running soy inks you need to have rollers formulated for soy as the ink is apparently quite aggressive in terms of wear to the rollers.

Gerald

Thanks Gerald, I’ve used RotaDyne here in Texas for my Windmill rollers and I also use the VanSon Soy ink. Sounds like I need to communicate with next time I go to recover.

Casey

Soy ink has some advantages and some possible disadvantages, and it will be worth watching to see how soy and other vegetable based inks do in the long run. I’ve run some soy ink on offset presses for years but only recently began using some for letterpress. For those wanting to try it or needing to use it, I do have a very few colors of soy based ink currently available in 1/4 lb. tubes (no skinning problems or waste!). Anyone interested can contact me at DavRobison@aol.com for info on ink in tubes.

Dave

Updated. I have been using Spinks Envirotech Black Ink (Soy Based) for the past 2 years. I had been using Van Son Rubber Base & CML Oil Base for the last 30 years. Most inks work fine. Just use what you can get when you need it in a hurry. Valley Litho is an online supplier of Spinks & Van Son.
Bob

Does anyone know if the soy based inks have a lower toxicity than other inks? I am just starting to explore letterpress and also pregnant. Wondering if there is a letterpress ink that doesn’t have any carcinogens or has less hazardous fumes? It appears that rubber doesn’t have any carcinogens listed, and oil does. Of course, working in a well ventilated environment and wearing gloves will help. Any other info/suggestions would be great. Thanks!

Every time I read threads such as this I thank the stars that the lunatic fringe was not around when Gutenburg began his endeavours else we would all be held to the whimsy of scribes. In my opinion.
Laurence

Wow, Forme…. Do you really mean to tell me that people exploring the best options for their situation is what you would describe as the lunatic fringe? What’s the harm?

Had you any understanding of the words: ‘lunatic fringe’, you’d realize your posting misses my point - entirely. I imply no ‘harm’ whatsoever; those words are your inference. What I am suggesting is for those barricading behind the nonesensical environment boogeyman to stick with mud and sharpened twig to avoid contact with the very essentials of letterpress. In fact, NASA is adopting a new space suit - the cast-offs, hermetically sealed, might well suit those whose dainty sensibilities are so easily offended by the actual contact of skin to product. How something as straightforward as letterpress can be made so overly complicated escapes reason. What next - a re-hash of the lead canard?
In simpler terms - lighten up. In my opinion
Laurence

From the practical standpoint, it’s not the inks that are likely to cause any potential problems. As long as you are reasonably careful and remember that the ink is supposed to go on your press, type, and the paper, and you’re not supposed to eat it (despite some delicious colors!) nor finger-paint with it! Certainly, gloves and, especially, good ventilation are not bad ideas, but your main concern should the solvent or whatever you might use to wash up, and that’s a subject for another thread, I think.

Updated. This is a great thread, thanks to everyone for all the info!

AP17

If you are pregnant and printing and consulting an online letterpress list for opinions on carcinogens and alternatives to, there is something wrong here.

I think you know what the answer is.

Gerald

Gerald, If you read my post it says I am exploring letterpress, meaning I am researching it and doing all the research that I can and exploring. I don’t have all the answers, as I am just beginning. Isn’t the point of discussion boards such as this to throw out questions and gather other people’s opinions and experience?

Updated. AP17, Inks are just a component in letterpress printing and you might get some on your skin. But there are many other health related issues to printing and ink is just one. How about the Cutter, or fingers in the Platen Press, Mineral Spirit skin contact and fumes, or paper cuts. The list goes on.

Positive health issues might be the feeling you get after setting up a form and it prints beautiful, a happy client, the broadside or chap book that took hours to design and produce and when you finish the joy it brings you. Now those are very positive health issues related to letterpress printing.

It’s not just the ink but that is a good first question.

Casey

AP17

Yes, that is the point of discussion boards. But apparently you only want reinforcing opinions? I read your posts and have to ask how is one to know what “exploring” means without further information of what you have in your experience. Simple question. I’m exploring letterpress as well, and have been for 32 years, as a printer.

Gerald

Wow - take a step back and listen to yourselves. I started reading this thread in interest, but now you are just getting mean. I guess it would be hard to understand being a printer (i.e. this is your livelihood) AND being pregnant at the same time unless you have actually been there. Kudos to AP17 for being cautious. The rest of you, stop judging and either offer some advice or back off.

Apparently,I’ve missed the election in which you were declared sole arbiter of debate. Does this mean Elizabeth is deposed? Does this mean your judgemental order: “…or back off”. must be instantly obeyed? And must tribute be paid to your Highness and, if so, in what form? Just curious.

Updated. There are people on this list that know more about letterpress than I do, but here I go again.

The point that’s being made here is that to be concerned about ink is only the head of the pin. The ink choice and it’s chemical make-up is but one question. I have only 8 books on letterpress that are filled with instruction and history. If I was to jump into the trade with abandonment then sure as heck I’m going to get hurt. I may loose a finger, or hand and the ink is the least of my concerns.

Recently someone got their hand caught in a C&P, i think it was about 6 months ago and was listed on one of the letterpress forums.

Take a class, get hands on training, cut some paper with a guillotine, clean up with kerosene or mineral spirits, keep the rags away from anything hot, don’t pull paper out of a press when it’s running, don’t clean the press when it’s running, ventilation is your friend, don’t eat with your hands after setting a bunch of metal type, wash your hands, never change a blade on your cutter without having someone show you first, never smoke in your shop if you have a lot of wood type because that would be bad for the wood type if it caught on fire.

I think I’m done, it’s been a pleasure, I sure like hearing from everyone, there are no dumb questions but is all in the presentation.

Casey

Updated. While I’m new here and new to letter press as an amateur/private press, and by no means an expert on the topic, I think it’s highly irresponsible of others to put down or dismiss someone’s interest in the environmental impact of the chemicals and supplies associated with out hobby/trade. To also taunt and out right belittle the concerns of a mother to be that may have some interest in becoming another of the legion that refuses to let a gracious art die borders on disgraceful and is indeed bad form.

I’d suggest when one asks of environmental risks we direct them to consider proper recycling/waste hauling processes or at the least instruct them to seek out a friendly commercial printer that will take in their waste ink, dirtied rags and other solvents. When one asks about a more world friendly supply to use we should offer advise and experience, even at times if it means shattering long standing industry wide myths. When someone new asks of something that seems ostensibly ludicrous to our lead stained fingertip way of thinking is it not better to assure them of their hollow apprehensions?

While this is an old thread revived, from reading the last half dozen or so posts I would walk away from this community thinking there’s not much help for anyone who’s not a master pressmen here.
Just something to consider.

Seek pre-natal advice? Consult a Doctor. Seek to further the present faddish wave of environmental hysteria? Consult Algore. Overcome with the vapours when reading direct response? Suck it up. And who are you to lecture others’ opinions - the House Nanny? Amazing ,the sensitive ‘artiests’ who’ve gathered ‘round the stone of late.

Lammy

I concur somewhat with forme and had hinted at this previously. If one is pregnant and concerned about the health hazards of letterpress, consult with your doctor, not an email list. What other useful advice would you want from here and trust (hopefully)?

Gerald

As an addition to my last post. Last semester, in several courses that I taught, there were three pregnant women. None of them informed me of their situation before they took the class. When I found out I instructed them to ask their doctor concerning health issues (one of them did) and I assigned an intern to clean up the presses for them to reduce the risk of solvent invasion.

The problem here is that you can’t convert the environment to your whims, just because you want to indulge yourself. If you ARE concerned about your health and the health of your un-born, you have to make the correct decision. Letterpress is not a healthy environment; it is not a craft activity (like basket weaving, etc.), it is in essence, an industrial activity.

Nor is it as bad as any concerns that are brought up about it. I have had this experience many times before and I have not had any pregnant woman who DID consult a doctor, tell me that their doctor advised them NOT to take a course in letterpress.

But it is up to you to way the risks, and if you are at all concerned, don’t do it; and if you do, don’t expect that somehow, with the chemically correct environment, it will all be okay.

Gerald

Hello again!
Well, this is STILL quite a lively chat! Of course any concerns during pregnancy need to be run by a doctor first and foremost. That’s quite obvious. The only problem being that a doctor doesn’t know the ins and outs of printing, thats why I thought it wise to gather more info and a second opinion from the Briar Press community of experts. If there were any unknown hazards out there, I was confident with so much combined experience on this board, that someone would have some additional info for me.

As with a lot of health issues today, you cannot expect all the answers from your health care provider and must do research on your own to form your own educated decision. Ink fumes aren’t great, but neither is paint and doctors say its okay to paint your nursery if well ventilated. So….the info I found from doctors and printers suggests, open windows and doors and get some good fans, wear gloves with cleaning solvents (or even better - ask someone to take over that task for you), avoid using lead type as studies show dust will accumulate on ground after time.

Merry Christmas to all and a wonderful 2008!

Yes, of course, avoid lead type when typesetting. And avoid needle and thread when sewing.
It is to weep.

AP17

Actually, you do not need to avoid lead type. There are only two situations that I know of where it might be a health problem.

The first is fairly simply, clean your hands after using; not because of the lead per se but because of what might be on it; solvent and ink residue, rodent urine, etc.

The second, don’t touch lead type that has a white stained or fuzzy appearance to it. This is white lead, the result of oxidation caused by chemical reaction. It is linked to lead poisoning. Same stuff they put in all paint (restricted to a very low percentage in the US) and the problem with the toys imported from China (regarding possible ingestion). It’s actually, though, a very good additive for both paint and ink!!! Gutenberg’s ink, which had an incredibly high percentage of it, is as black as black can be, to this day. A secret he apparently took to his grave. It is also used in highway and military paint (excepted from the restrictions) mainly because it makes the paint vibrant and durable.

Gerald
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