Diecutting

Nice looking die! I assume you probably nick it to keep the sheet together as it comes out of the press/cutter…..or do you leave that to the customer?

Another question, but this is more of a cutter operator question than a die maker question. When I worked in a carton plant, the die didn’t quite have to cut all the way through the boxboard. It cut down far enough to make the board “pop” apart, and if you listened closely when the cutter was closing at slow speed, you could hear the sheet “pop.” This was with 12 to 15 pt board. My question is, there must be some point of sheet thickness where the sheet doesn’t “pop” apart any more, but where the die has to go all the way down through the sheet to cut it. I wonder how thick (or thin) a sheet would have to be, where it would no longer pop apart, but it had to be cut through.

We die-cut quite a bit of cardboard and other board (.36, .50 etc.). When cutting the 36 & 50 you can put nicks in it. But on corrugated board it is usually thick enough to hold together with care. I wouldn’t advise nicking that as it could tear when broken apart. One thing we do on occasion when possible is to leave out the end knives on one side and when the die cutting is complete to cut the end off with the paper cutter.

That sounds like an idea which is worth trying, kellypress…..thanks!

if you plan to “possibly” pull the rule, you will want to extend those rules by 1/8 inch over. if the rule is exact to size and you pull the end rule, hitting the end of each one requires perfect squareness to back gauge and perfect register on press. otherwise you will either have to cut slightly undersize, or have a nick where the pulled rule used to meet up with the rest.

What types of diecutting presses do you have? Are you the owner? @kellypress

And Geoffrey we nick dies if our customer asks us to but usually the operator likes to do that. As far as your operator question ericm is the diecutting master I would refer you to him.

Ryan at Rise and Shine recently suggested I try a job with no nicks at all and it worked perfectly. Almost no stripping on delivery (windmill) and made stripping the job SO MUCH easier at the end.

Of course, this won’t work with extra thin stock, but .30 + has been fine for me

Thanks….this is all interesting info.

We try to run without nicks whenever possible. A few times we have placed a cardboard box in the delivery to catch the flying pieces. Usually they hang on if you run slow enough.

There is a type of pre-nicked rule available called Zimmer rule that has laser cut nicks at predetermined spacing and depth. Very helpful for thinner stocks and leaves virtually no chaff.

2 big issues here when we talk “nicks”. Are you truly “nicking”?
or are you “notching”. sounds funny but follow for a bit. if you are nicking with a chisel, razor blade, edge of another rule, or “cut off” wheel in a Dremel, this is not good, and not very precise. the cutoff wheel will leave a huge notch. Very precise cutoff wheels can be purchased. these can come in varying thickness/width. proper width is determined mostly by stock thickness. However, Grain direction plays a big role here too. If the rule is cutting across the grain, with the nick leaving the grain intact, the nick can be much smaller than a nick on a rule cutting with the grain.
these nicking wheels can be purchased all the way down to .010. these are VERY fragile and break easily..012-.020 is most commonly used as after .020 thick the nick gets very visible. you can always “double up” with a thinner nick, keeping them smaller. “BarPlate” has these
i use a battery powered Dremel to nick dies, but an air powered nicking drive can be purchased, be sitting down when they tell you how much.
Very thick board stocks, cut with a die equipped with “Long center bevel” rule. may not need any nicks.
Lot of variables just with this subject alone.

I have a question, how many different cut pieces of steel rule are in that die?

I recently started a new job and have become our company’s “die maker” knife and re-knife.

Having been a die cutter as well as a pressman for a long while, I have found that the best die makers are old die cutters.

ericm seems to be on the right track, when “nicking” something you have to pay attention to the grain of the paper. In most situations the 2nd number or long number is your grain direction, this is not always true, but most cases it is.

almost all production stock can be ordered “grain long” or “grain short” If not, then you order over size and cut to grain direction desired.

Really, dies should be made without nicks and only nicked enough to keep sheet intact to get through whatever press without falling apart I was taught to gently nick the lead edge (press orientation) just enough adjusting the depth or adding more to make it work there is no hard and fast rules just make it work
Ted Lavin

@Kimarkstuff that die probally has about ten pieces in it. Do you re-knife and knife all of your dies by hand or do you have a laser/bender?

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Steel Rule Die, I knife and re-knife all the dies by hand, luckily most of them are for paper box business and don’t have a lot of intricate bends,

Steel Rule Die, is there any chance you can take a photo of the first die from the back so we can see where the notches are? Thank you Tim

don’t do it! trade secrets! lol

Kimarkstuff email me at [email protected] I’ll send you as many pictures as you want!

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