Miehle Vertical V50X Forme Roller Setting Problem
Now that I have a press that feeds (see earlier posts!) I am having real trouble setting the forme rollers.
The V50x has a 2inch and 1.75 inch forme roller. The diagrams I have show that the 2inch roller is the upper of the two (when fixed in operating position).
Following the ’ Supplementary Guide’ to the V50x the rollers have been set to give the correct width line on the inking plate BUT the steel oscillating roller ONLY CONTACTS the upper 2inch roller ! Setting the smaller roller to the oscillator gives no ink contact with plate or forme. I even swapped the rollers around but the two inch roller in the lower position could not be adjusted away from the forme enough to give the correct contact.
I have repeated the procedure a number of times with the same result.
The V50X was imported from the USA some 8 years ago by another UK printer and remained in its packing case until I purchased a few months ago. It had obviously most recently been used in cutting and creasing mode!
My specific questions are:
1. Are the V50 and V50X forme roller carriages interchangeable (perhaps we have an incorrect carriage from a V50 for two 2inch rollers)
2. Is the oscillating roller the same diameter on the forme roller carriage of the V50 and V50X (there is evidence that this may have been swapped out)
3. Anyone offer some other reason why it is impossible to set rollers
Heeeeelllllppp !
Ed
Canterbury, UK
It sounds like you have a v50 roller frame. I would put a 2” roller in and try it.
Best
So skiyou are you confirming that the frames are different?
When I put a 2inch roller in the bottom cant adjust the roller far enough away from the forme…roller ‘stripe’ is greater than 1/4 inch at its furthest away!!
Ed
ZF - I have a V50 (not an X), and my form roller carriage also has a 1.75” (bottom) and a 2” roller (top), although I have seen many that have both rollers being 2”. However my bottom roller carriage has both 2” rollers, as I believe all do. Since you say you have seen evidence that the upper carriage oscillating roller has possibly been changed, it sounds possible that your oscillating roller may not be the proper roller for the carriage. It seems logical, although I cannot say for a fact that if a carriage has (2) 2” rollers the steel oscillating roller would be somewhat smaller, and /or positioned slightly different in the carriage, than if it has a 1.75” and a 2” roller?? Maybe the oscillating roller in your press was replaced with one from a carriage that has both 2” rollers, but the carriage itself is designed for a 1.75” and a 2” roller?? This would seem to explain the symptoms you experience. Not sure how you could verify if this is the case. Just my 2 cents. Good Luck!
Gil
Hi,
It’s a bit late today but I will post a copy of the roller supplement for a V50 tomorrow. It looks as if they are the same. My instinct is to remove the small steel rider and try to set the forme rollers without it, the large steel should just sit on the forme rollers without any problem. If this works then go back to the small steel. In the notes there is a comment about making sure the eccentrics are set and turned the right way. It is the 2 inch at the top and 1.75 inch at the bottom.
Frank H.
The link below is to an original Miehle drawing I have in the Vandercook files that show the roller set up on the V-50 in the 60s before the X version. This was to see if they could adapt the Vandercook ink monitor to the Vertical. The print shows the vibrator roller to have a diameter of 1.594”.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/53177163@N00/26079729631/in/photolist-2qL5Ap-s7oTfB-FJzr1T
Here are the scans of the V50 supplement for comparison.
Hope they help. Can email them to you if it helps.
Frank H.
img016.jpg
img015.jpg
Many thanks to all for comments so far:
Gilman: My thoughts entirely but yet to determine if the V50X carriage is different in its geometry or oscillator dia
Fritz: Diagram looks like the arrangement we have, I can confirm oscillator is circa 1.6 inch dia..will attempt to check out other dimensions
Frank: I have the rider roller and have attempted to set rollers with it not touching the 2inch roller initially…does not help :( Interestingly I cant get too much pressure on the accurately set 2inch roller using the rider…which again makes me think the carriage must be wrong.
=======
So I am still none the wiser. Can anyone with a V50X photograph the carriage for me and check the oscillator roller dia. If anyone has a V50X and a late V50 with the different dia rollers it would be really helpful if he/she could visually inspect both carriages and see if there are differences in the geometry of the roller positions.My gut feeling is that the oscillator dia is probably the same but is slightly closer to the swinging arm pivot so it nestles between the two forme rollers.
And if anyone has a spare V50X carriage for sale and who would ship to UK let me know!
Im just itching to get to grips with printing from the Vert !
Desperate of Canterbury, England!
Ed
The vert is printing!
Fortunately I had some spares from 2 no British built V50’s and used the forme roller carriage from one of those (swapped out the rusty oscillator for the shiny one from the V50X) and able to set rollers just so!
Interestingly when the carriage was locked in there was absolutely no movement in the oscillator support arms, whereas in the original carriage the whole thing was loose (and thus could only get oscillator touching rollers by backing completely away from the forme)..yet to determine why that was the case.
One thing to mention straight away…what a fantastic feed system this press has……..love it already!
Ed
E. D. Well done that Man, Kentish Man OR Man of Kent, according to which side of the Medway one is from Or which Pub etc, so it is rumoured,??? … But in any case because the V.M. is what it is, all *lock Up,s* have to be NOT necessarily chase busting powerful, but efficient!!! … plus ALL the Little Brass *DOGS* that hold the Rollers in place need to be Tip Top.?? . . The Good Buddy in beautiful Downtown Brighton, will relate Many, Many examples of both of the above, involving *lackadaisical* Minders (later to become Machine Managers) either Losing a Whole Form through Dodgy Lock up, or, wrecking the Roller Carriage from just one or two worn retaining *Dogs*
Good Luck.
Well done Ed.
You are lucky to be able to do the swap around. Yes the feeder is magic and is so controlable. I believe V50x is even better than the V50.
Frank H.