Seller Misrepresentation

Looking at eBay this afternoon I noticed that someone is offering an R. Hoe Washington press for sale, but is using a photograph of my press which they took from my Flickr account. The description describes major damage, and offers to ship the machine for $25.00. Sounds like someone is intending to take the money and run.

Log in to reply   27 replies so far

Did you contact the seller?
I’d be so Pi**ed.
I see it already has 1 bid.
Caveat Emptor…and no mistake.


Even better, contacted eBay.


That’s pretty impressive that they can ship the buyer your press for only $25.

There is a link in the corner of the listing where you can report the item as fraudulent.


I’ve decided to get in on the bidding- after all the restoration work you’ve done, it’s just too good a deal to pass up. I hope you understand.


To Devil’s Tail Press et al:

Here in Australia, scams (confidence tricks) are so numerous it’s not funny.

A friend of mine advertised a 4WD (automobile) for sale, received five replies the first day, all much the same:

“I’ve just arrived in Australia (as a tourist) and it sounds like the vehicle is just what I want. Can you deliver it to the airport. And give me the details of your bank account so I can pay the money in.”

Anyone falling for this ploy can expect to find his account drained. My friend opened a special (separate) account, depositing only $25, to accommodate this particular (possible) transaction; but did not follow up any of the applicants. There are many tragic stories of people finding they have been defrauded, so much so that I think I may be passing up genuine offers.

But this message is not to be taken that the offer (the Washington press) may be suspect. On the other hand, caveat emptor, “If it’s too good to be true, it probably is” is the official warning in our country.


I feel like I got had with this last press I bought or was forced to buy. It was listed on Briarpress and I put a deposit on it and went to get it and it had damage that he didn’t describe. I wanted my deposit back -but he really got angry and pushed me into buying it. Now I have a press with bad saddles that I don’t know how to replace. That is only one issue. I am so disappointed and broke.

You might want to speak to Steve Robinson of Letterpreservation. I think he was making saddles for C&P presses at some point. They are a pretty basic job if you can get the original to a machinist.


Dan are they adifficult to take off- does the pin that holds them need to be ground off or tapped out?
I will contact this Steve Robinson. I see he has a phone number but don’t see a website. Thanks

Its a difficult world , however using common sense to choose if its a crooked deal works , I choose to make arrangements for a meet with the press ,lorry at the ready and cash in hand , had an awful row once with someone on collection that didnt tell us the machine could only go over a wall that had been built after installation , it was advertised as palletised for removal , that implies you can wheel it out the place , not that you would need a sky crane to get at it .The example above with a twenty five dollar teaser on it surely is not believable they go 100 scrap !!
Best seen in the flesh as it were is the only foolproof way . As for damage in the machines themselves thats less of a problem if the owner selleer never ran it ,as then its a sold as seen , i have a chance to look at it and i if i miss something thats just tough . You cant ask a seller to compensate on a part for a 180 yr old antique unless they claim its in full working order and most dont , usually it used to be grandads machine and its been in the corner for sixty years rusting , thats a deal you take to be sold as seen ,if it is shiny and apparently complete and said to be working then it has to work but its very old therefore wear will be present if you arent satisfied you still stand on dodgy ground because no one said reconditioned !! WORDS read carefully what the ad says and the seller, it may be that what is damaged was not known it takes experienced people to see a press problem ,you may have got your old art jobs off perfectly on a complete wreck but it wasnt a problem to grandad but you want perfect register and the seller may not even know what that is !!!
Unfortunately a rebirth of uses for what was scrap a while ago has woken some of the dodgiest people to what is in the pile of iron in the yard , they brush it up and paint it black colour in the lettering with some gold paint ,hey presto its a commodity , take a pic like referred to above of a machine in the correct environment and you will be up for buying it ,all that you need for the sale a good picture of a machine and you have one the same so you post the good pic and sell your rusty heap on claiming it was used till recently and the photo they saw was the previous owner x years ago but you have only had it in store since you brought it !!
People buying should consult with sellers face to face if its not been in use then you allow that the seller may have knoowledge of its failings but then if they are printing litho in the place and the hand fed relicis covered in crap its likely retired especially if they are running a blackball platen in a corner as that is the likely reason the arab was abandoned . The environment a machine is in tells you everything if you look the rest is down to your knowledge of the press in order to establish suitably its use to you .
I could go on for hours on this subject ,buyer beware of that which is cheap , there are reasons why something can be cheap that letterpress wasnt made in china so it shoulnt be priced like it was !

I’m not sure about the pin. You might want to further investigate your rail issue before you go to the trouble of removing them.



Do you still have your other press? You could swap the whole saddle assembly maybe?


There’s got to be a parts press with good saddles somewhere…

i second the Steve Robinson, he is a great guy to deal with, and knows his way around these old presses

John- am still working on my old press so I don’t want to disassemble it yet. Also the arm even though they are both 10x15 is bigger on the old style.

Dan- that is my biggest concern how to get that pin out. I have several machine shops that could make me one but not sure how to disassemble it and not either ruin it or have to replace the entire rod.

I will try and call this Steve Robinson. Thanks


Can you take off the whole roller arm? Bring the whole thing into the machine shop. They shouldn’t have a problem figuring out how to remove the saddle and make a new one. Presses are just machines. Machinists should recognize or figure out how it comes off and have the tools to do it. Shouldn’t be too mysterious for them.


I’m not sure I’d suggest unleashing that spring in the arm assembly- those things can be deadly and are hard to get back in place too!

Oops, the’re that loaded up heh? I should stick to Golding advice. Thanks Dan


I am sure it can be done safely, but it is pretty intense when one gets away from you. Is it not like that on the Jobbers?


I had great fun trying to get those springs back in place when I rebuilt my press. Two guys and a pair of vice grips and a few trips into the neighbors yard when the spring got loose before we finally got it back in and secured. You have to be careful but it can be done.


My concern was that the saddles may be held on by a pressed pin. Not being all that familiar with C & P’s, I defer to those that are. I thought that it might be easier, and safer to remove the pin once off the press as you would in all likelihood need to use a hammer and pin punch. The springs on my Golding Jobber are a bit of a pain, but, not lethal. It is only a 8 x 12 however, and parts do get a lot bigger on a 10 x 15. There are no saddles on it either, just individual hooks, so the springs may be lighter duty only needing to pull one roller rather than two as with a saddle.


i’m going to hav to replace the saddles on a 8x12 c&p, i’ve looked at it and the springs don’t have to come off to change the saddles (i think),

Could you pull the saddle shaft up a little and clamp it in position, or block it up from below, and then use a C-clamp and a slightly smaller short pin to press the retaining pin out of the saddle to remove it, thus obviating the need to remove the spring and shaft?


Ok, I think I will not pull the spring off. I will see if I can get the pin out from where it is. I don’t want to hammer on it very hard though. Does that pin have a head on it or is it just a straight pin that can be tapped out. Otherwise I’m going to fill in the grooves with body filler and sand them smooth. Not great but at least it will be smooth.

If it does have a head, you should be able to tap it out from the opposite side. But pressing it out is a better technique as hammering can “mushroom” the end and make it very hard to drive out. I have pressed such pins out using a large pair of slip-joint pliers and a short piece of a nail with the ends filed flat for a “punch” You need to put something hollow, like a small nut, on the side the pin will go toward so it doesn’t hit the pliers (or the C-clamp I suggested earlier). You can use the same method to install the pin again.


Curious as to what happened to the listing? I presume someone marked it as fraudulent since the listing has ended with zero bids and the last I checked folks had been bidding. Anyone know?

I complained to eBay that they were using the image of my press to sell an apparently broken machine. I requested photos of the damage of the press from the seller, but was put off, and then ignored. A bidder withdrew a $1000. bid because of lack of communication. The seller actually had the nerve to email me today to bless me out and make additional excuses as to why he couldn’t post pictures or be honest. The high bidder up to the end of the auction was someone with no eBay experience to speak of, and couldn’t discern the inconsistencies in the listing. The listing reeked of scam, and I’m just glad that I saw the listing before someone lost a sizable sum of money.


It seems like enough of us on the Briar list need lower saddles for their C&P. A few questions…
1. Would anyone who has them be willing to loan them out should we be able to find a machinist? If the machinist had to produce more than one (and even maybe way more), I assume the cost per set would be reduced.
2. Are the saddles the same for different sizes of C&Ps such as 10 x 15 and 12 x 18?
3. And, I assume the rod and spring are over the counter merchandise if the real ones are not available? Thanks - Neil