Kluge Feeding Doubles

Hello I have a 12 X 18 Kluge with feeder and am having trouble with getting doubles. I am using rubber suckers and am working with .060 coaster board. Is there any secrets to avoid the double pick up of the boards. I am running a small size 4” X 4 ” so the board is stiff. I placed brushes on the side of the board pile, to fan the doubles away from the first card, but not much luck. I have tried many different techniques, but can’t stop the doubles and sometimes triples. Any tips would be great, as I end up hand feeding and not using the feeder.

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Are you blowing a lot of air between the sheets of paper? If so, sounds like you are blowing too far into the pile. Try blowing in front of pile. Heavy stock requires more air blast, for the record.

Hi James,
Yes I am blowing close to the very front cards. Has anybody ever set up strip fingers on the press, similar to an offset press or die cutter. I was going to try that technique next ! I know they are used in copper & steel depending on tension needed. I have tried different suckers and moved them all over, closer wider, adjusted the pile closer and further back. Has anyone used an additional air pump, for suction or air blast ??

Package Products, Lower the pile, put a bleeder valve
on one of the suction holes. best james

My 10x15 has a stripper wire that attaches to the bottom of the feeder board with a screw. OEM was spring wire, but it’s long since broken. I make them with stitcher wire (flexible), and I know printers who use paper clips (kinda’ stiff). The picture shows what the original wire looks like.

image: StripperWire.jpg

StripperWire.jpg

P.P.quite prepared to state that I dont know the score, and can only offer the following:- where I worked for a long time, the firm kept a Thompson Platen, in preference to the Heidelberg Platen, because it apparently, coped with stiff cover material, for a prestige auction Catalogue, my only involvement was to renew the rings in the Air Pump, for best suction and blast, but subsequently experimented, cutting Pen Steel strips, under directions from the machine operator, using varying lengths and thicknesses, the right end result (i.e. no doubles or triples) worked, when the minder fitted 4 fingers across the pile, 2 at one length and thickness and 2 at another, so that if the first 2 didnt succeed, the second 2 did i.e. stopping doubles and triples. Perhaps I improved the suction too much but was assured that the suction control was variable to cope. If these observations are merely reiterating, that which you have already stated, as you next plan of action>>> Sincere Apologies,>>> just one more thought (possibly) if you could obtain a vacuum gauge, for a modest sum, ex car wrecking yard, or similar and introduce it into the pipe to your sucker bar (temporary or semi permanent) and monitor the amount of suction at point of pick, up as opposed to other stock, suction bleed through the top sheet even??? Such vacuum gauge was fitted to the V.M. as standard with a Tell Tale needle to monitor and record individual setting for varying stock. Apologies again if this is in no way constructive, and Good Luck.

Unbend paper clips and tape them to the metal air blast. Have them stick up about 1 pica. Or you could put a rubber band at the top of the magazine rails the paper sits on. This helps hold back the second sheet of paper, or in your case coasters.

Thanks to all of you who responded to my post. All comments are helpful you never know what will work best and the more options received the better.
“Happy New Year”

make sure that when the feed arm comes in to pick up the sheet, it does not collapse the “air pillow” between the sheets.you can also try using masking tape. run the tape from the back plate all the way up the top of the stock pile. the feed arm will often have enough vacuum to pick the front sheet stripping it from the tape but not enough to take the second sheet. the level of adhesion will depend on how hard you press the tape into the stack.

to ericm

Masking tape seems a novel idea, perhaps applicable to other than letterpress printing; setting type is my territory, not the actual press work, but I’d never have suspected the tape idea could work.

This is the kind of advice which can come from forums, especially Briar Press.

Alan.

The trick we used to use when running heavy stock on a sheet-fed press is to make sure the stock is fanned and has plenty of air in the stack. Use small stacks so the weight doesn’t have a chance to push the air out, and if necessary dust the fanned stack with off-set spray powder to keep the sheets from sticking.

Paul

further, to ericm

Does “fanning” the stack of paper before putting it to the feed table result in the “air pillow” forming between the sheets? Perhaps there is an art/skill to fanning paper so that the correct thickness of the air pillow is formed; also, would the air pillow be forced out of the lower parts of the stack if a heavy stack is put on the feed table? As I read recently: ask a question and be thought a fool for a short time; don’t ask the question and remain a fool indefinitely. But it’s my experience that how one phrases the question which makes the person questioned judge how foolish the questioner is; I was in discussion with a friend, and suddenly realised he had phrased questions to show me the limit of my knowledge, pretending that he was asking my instruction on a technical point. He had been an effective debater at university.

Alan.

to Paul at Devils Tail Press

You answered my questions while I was still keyboarding them, just before I sent them. That’s a quick response!

Alan.

Additional Kluge feeding problems. Seems the sheet .012 SBS, is hitting the paper guides and bouncing backwards
being cocked and pushed away from the side guide. Is there a gripper finger used to keep the paperboard from hopping around, once released from the feeding suckers. I have adjusted the suction release every which way but loose to allow sheet to drop farther away from the guides.
Anyone close to Milford, New Jersey I could visit for some Thanks, Kenhelp ??

How is the tension on your tongue…tight? The tongue helps to pull the sheet down. If the tension is loose the tongue won’t pull the sheet down. If it is too tight the paper won’t go under it. If the tongue is too long it won’t clear the paper before the side guide pushes it.

Hi GWAK,
I was just on the phone with Dick Goodin and he said to say hello.
I don’t have this tongue and would like to find out what that’s all about. Could you send a photo of it on your press. I knew that gadget at the bottom of the platen had something to do with holding the sheet. Where are you located could we talk Thanks so much for responding back
Regards, Ken

Hi GWAK,
I was just on the phone with Dick Goodin and he said to say hello.
I don’t have this tongue and would like to find out what that’s all about. Could you send a photo of it on your press. I knew that gadget at the bottom of the platen had something to do with holding the sheet. Where are you located could we talk Thanks so much for responding back
Regards, Ken

Here’s a link to the part being discussed:

http://www.kluge.biz/foil-stamping-embossing-diecutting-consumable-parts...

There are several different designs to the tongue which attaches so that a sheet is fed under it as the sheets are fed to the gauge pins. It should be tight enough to keep the sheet from jumping back, but loose enough so that the side guide can push the sheet into register.

You can see the tongue properly adjusted on page eleven of the manual at:

http://letterpresscommons.com/files/2012/10/Instruction-Care-and-Operati...

John Henry
Cedar Creek Press (once upon a time a Kluge owner)

Thanks John,
Do you know where these tongues can be purchased ?
Where are you located ?
Regards,

Ken, you can try NA Graphics, i think he sells these tongues.

Kluge sells them, you can also find them on ebay sometimes.

Hello all,
Thanks for all your tips. I did go on line and print out a manual. Very helpful, Thanks jHenry. I made up a set of tongues out of the .016 board and made them long enough and curled them up so the sheet would go under them. I taped them just past the guage pins allowing the sheet to flow freely, but snug and the side guide pushed them over fine. The register was perfect and I was running at about 1,300 shts per hour. I ran 12,000 impressions. I added an external air blast at the lower front of the sheet blowing just about 1/2” back into the pile at about 15 lbs.PSI. The only problem I had was the pile height for this weight board, did not come up fast enough. I had to hand raise the pile. Is there an adjustment to compensate for heavier thicknesses of paper. I didn’t seem to see any instructions in the manual for that. I have a feeling I know what to adjust, but would like some advice. Thanks to Alan Rundfelt he helped me cut some of this job, on his C&P. I was making partitions with 144 cells for lipsticks and they had to be cut in 2 passes due to the spacing in the cell fins, where they slipped together.
It was fun visiting with Alan and seeing his shop. He has a lot of Stuff !!! So Great !!!
This was a fun job just watching that old Kluge chug along.

Alan sure has some letterpress stuff, when most of his stuff was new he was just a little boy. (sorry Alan)