Hand casting

Handcasting

Why do you need Ludlow Mats,

if you want to enact as a colonial printer, you cast in a handmould (Stan Nelson) from Mats and dress them by hand for printing.

No?

C.P. Sir, it is perfectly understandable to be enthusiastic with a seemingly earth shattering new idea, but just to initially, get across the enormity or your quest, the following is offered, as T.N. says Stan Nelson may offer a little partial solution, the chances of acquiring a Hand Mould with even one set and size of Mats (matrices) would be the same odds as finding the *END*?? product from Toy Rocking Horses!!!
In the event that you did source a hand mould, such device is generally dependent on reproducing letters, from molten lead, and with the use of a full fount of existing letters already on sight, by making, firstly, one mirror image copy and then reversing the process, to obtain one reproduction of the original. A very acquired skill, very time consuming and well quoted many many hours to produce a working font of even one letter of the whole alphabet.
Well documented on line, for example *Type O Fix* and others!!!
Don Black Linecasting in Toronto will, probably, Sell you Whole fonts of Ludlow Mats, understandably at a price!! but being able to source a hand mould to utilise them has not been achieved, Yet.!!as far as is known!!
There has been recently some discussion, and some success utilising (possibly) Linotype mats on the Ludlow, which only produces whole lines and not individual letters, and Schulyer, (Sky Shipley in California) can apparently use mats (matrices) with an adaptor?? to cast, on an automatic Typecaster mats normally used on a different machine, but not by hand.

I know several people who have made hand-moulds and successfully cast type by hand. Stan Nelson is certainly the go-to guy on the subject. More power to you for desiring to cast by hand.

Paul

I believe what Colonial Printer wants to do is get Ludlow or Monotype mats and build a handmold to cast from those mats to keep from having to manufacture the mats as well. Correct? This sounds like a really interesting idea, but there are a few difficulties with this plan. They probably aren’t insurmountable, though.

First and foremost is that I don’t think anyone has ever tried to use machine mats in a handmold before. I’m not sure how you’d make that work. Most casting machines had a fair amount of adjustment of the mat position built in to make casting accurately easier. Handmolds generally didn’t, requiring the mats to be very carefully made instead. Sloppily manufactured mats in a mold with no adjustment makes for very strange type.

Secondly, the “Caslon” faces you can find that were manufactured by companies like Monotype or Ludlow weren’t very accurate to the original Caslon types. They were “revivals” with many modernizations. They won’t really look like proper Colonial printing.

Thirdly, I’m afraid you’re likely to have a hard time finding new-made matrices of any kind, especially ones made to match an existing fount. To my knowledge no-one is producing Ludlow-style mats at all. All existing Ludlow mats are old stock. There are a few hobbyists producing Monotype-style flat mats via electrotyping, but nobody that I know of doing so in quantity.

Another option would be the Colonial-era method of engraved (perhaps machine-engraved via CNC or EDM if you’re short of time), hardened steel punches driven into brass planchets to make your own. Or, you could also try your hand at learning how to electrotype mats. If you want to actually match the faces of the Colonial period, one of these is likely your only hope.

Sorry to come off as a downer. It is an interesting idea. Just probably not an easy one.
—
Michael Hurley
Titivilus Press
Memphis, TN

Has anyone ever tried CNC engraving into the brass/aluminum plate to make the matrix for the handmould?

That’s my plan for now…once I figure a way to make the handmould itself…lacking skills or equipment…or cash…yeah, quite a well thought-out plan that one. Just playing with the melting pot for now, casting typemetal into clay.

oprion,
You should get involved with the American Typecasting Fellowship.
http://www.buzzworm.com/atf-hotmetal/
http://www.flickr.com/groups/2033003@N22/

DGM

In the 1960’s when I was poor and in college, I decided to experiment with casting. I made a mold out of 1/4 X 1 inch brass bar stock, and for matrices I cut them in end-grain oak. I finished the printing surfaces of the “type” (and probably the foot end as well, don’t remember) with a file. I could actually print with the ten characters I made. They didn’t align or fit well, of course, but they sure looked “quaint.” I could adjust the widths of the bodies by moving one of the brass bars in or out. The 1/4 inch size was very close to 18 point.

Ivan, CNC engraving the matrix isn’t far off from the Benton/ATF method that was also used by the late (and very lamented) Jim Rimmer. Basically a very finely manufactured pantograph router similar to what was used until very recently to engrave trophy plates and the like. The pantograph’s hand follower would be used with an upsized master pattern to control where the tool cut away the planchet to form the matrix. It’s been claimed that the Bentons’ machine and the method by which they used it could produce mats from a single set of masters for all the necessary point sizes including optically correct scaling of the faces, though I’ve never seen a report from or talked to anyone who had ever actually seen this done or how.

You can see Jim Rimmer doing every step of this type of production in P22 Digital Type Foundry’s video production “Making Faces”, available from them on DVD. I highly recommend it if you’re interested in making type. It documents Jim making the font “Stern” from beginning to end. “Stern” was simultaneously released in digital and hand-set forms. Jim starts with hand drawn designs which he digitizes for form both the master patterns and the files from which the digital font will be made, and then engraves mats from the masters. The mats are then cast as individual type. The film is quite fascinating, though a bit bittersweet. Jim Rimmer died before the film was released.

CNC would simply change the control mechanism from hand to computer. The tooling would be largely the same. Plus, you’d have to alter the G-code or the original CAD file for any optical scaling you wanted rather than being able to do it with different sizes of follower/tool combinations and different angle settings on the pantograph.
—
Michael Hurley
Titivilus Press
Memphis, TN

Yup, Jim’s wonderful film is what gave me the idea of using CNC in the first place. I am thinking of CNC’ing a brass plate with the whole alphabet, then cutting it up into individual matrices, or even leaving it whole, and just sliding the mold over the surface (with holes drilled in for registration).

I understand what every one is saying. I heard a lot of that when I built the presses. They are authentic and work great. Machining the mold is the easy part. The hard part is the matrix. That is why I am thinking Ludlow or mono type. I am at a road block on the matrix. I am waiting to hear back from Don Black on mats. Just asking if anyone knows other sources for mats. Is there any one making mono type mats? I can make the mold to hold any mat.

You should contact Ed from Swamp press, he has more monotype mats than God.

Colonial Printer, good luck to you. I really hope you can manage to work something out. As I said before, I didn’t mean to come off as a downer, was more trying to point out potential pitfalls so you’re better armed when you get to them. You’re already well ahead of me. One of these days I want to build a common press but don’t have the space right now.
—
Michael Hurley
Titivilus Press
Memphis, TN

If you could devise a mat holder for them, Monotype composition mats might be your best bet. I believe they have a centering hole on the back for position and if you make the hand mold for the standard Monotype composition mat drive you would be able to use any Monotype composition mats for casting. I believe they are all made a uniform horizontal dimension so a single mat holder should work for any mat. I’m not sure whether the “quaints” (I assume that is what you meant) are included in the mat case.

Bob

Not to detract from the massive enthusiasm, but just to state details, from Mats (matrices) in front of me as I post, and from quite long experience with Monotype, Composition from 5 point to 14 point and Supercaster, from 14 point up to 72 point.
Since the early 50,s composition mats were and still are struck/punched, by The Monotype Museum in london,(listed) in 3 normal formats, either on .2 x .2 -.2 x .4 or .4 x .4, (imperial size) for the following reason(s) up to (generally) 10 point the face would come onto .2 x .2 body, after that, Italic Caps, Swash characters, or long ascenders/descenders, would have to be struck on .2 x .4 and in some extreme cases on 12 point, 12 Didot, (i.e.12/13) or 13 point, the character would have to span .4 x .4 imperial measure???. . 14 and 18 point large type composition mats, virtually all on .4 x .4 in front of me @ point of post.?? . .USABLE with a Hand mould,??? but how to adapt,
The point about the mid 50,s comment, after that time standard composition mats were struck, bored to accept the rods and milled, (after mid 50s) at each side to accept bars for securing into the diecase frame, plus the back was made with a cone hole to accomodate the centering pin on the caster, (another difficult scenario to navigate.??)
Each diecase with full compliment of mats, when first set up to run, would be aligned with a purpose ground alignment slip, via the 2 micrometer adjusters on the bridge, the unit that carried the diecase in use. Another hurdle to adapt.?? .
Not impossible to make/utilise composition mats with a hand mould, BUT to take into account 3 different dimensions, .2 x .2 .2 x .4 and .4 x. 4 and obtain alignment, doable, but complex???
Super Caster mats are/were struck as exactly 1” x 1/4” mats and are accomodated on the Supercaster in a mat Holder that had/has built in Pin Wrench adjusters for alignment, this achieved with the use of A matrix in the mat box, with every set of Mats, appearing as a reversed out image to give exact position atop the body of the type.
Once again doable/useable but probably complex adaptor involved for alignment, on the Super once the alignment was set the normal procedure, was to use the mats in designated order of size, using the micrometer head on the machine itself, and progressively coming down in size.??
Again, on the Super, once the alignment was set, the mould acted as its own Lay Edge progressing down the size range, possibly complicated to accomodate with a hand mould, but obviously worked out by the forerunners, making Hand Moulds AND relevant Mats together, but how to adapt Machine Mats over the width range.???
I posted a while ago, one or two shots of Super Caster mats that had been reproduced by the *Spark Erosion* process, but in this case only to replace odd characters that had been burnt out or damaged in use, but I presume that, which ever firm was tasked with the job, would have had to access the Monotype Archives Original drawings, for the Masters.
All the foregoing negotiable, but what time, cost and frustration.

Good moring Colonial Printer-

I think your idea of using Ludlow or similar mats for handcast type is an excellent one. Actually, if you do a search here on Briar Press you will see that several of us experimented with just that very idea a few years ago, with varying degrees of success.

My own type turned out GREAT….. using a Diederot style mold, with a modified bottom to hold the mats. I still use the type regularly when I want a certain “feel” to my work. (However, I must admit to using large rubber-bands to hold the mold shut, rather than the original springs.)

Now… about mats: Other than the sources you mention (Dave C being the best), the only other source I know of is e-bay. Mats show up there with some regularity. I bought a great set of 18pt Caslon which I used for my own early experiments. E-bay is not my favorite venue… but it does serve it’s purposes.

as far as the comment that you really should make punches and stamp your own mats goes, Typenut is partially correct…. but only partially. From my researches, it appears that the earliest printers in the Americas brought their molds, mats and punches with them from Europe, and did not make them themselves. Thus “re-purposing” Ludlow or monotype mats seems to be acceptable to me.

Finally: Congrats on your handmade presses, and type! I love to hear about folks who are building their own stuff.

One word of caution though: most of the printers here are in to photo-polymer / digital printing, and many don’t understand the “build it yourself” line of thinking. When I posted my hand-made presses, homemade roller making, and alternative platemaking here, I got a lot of “…. that won’t work…” or “….. why would you want to build that when you can buy photo-digital plates from Boxcar?…” sort of comments. Most were well-intentioned discussion, but more than a few were just mean spirited slams from folks who didn’t like anything. Hopefully the mean-spirited folks will understand what you are trying to do and will only post constructive comments.

He doesn’t have to cut punchest etc. These is CNC age, he could have a strip of hard half yellow Brass in a CNC machine like a Fadal or such, cut the pattern, it’s flat work, and afterwords saw them apart for precise fitting.

If he cast from Ludlow, he has to reinvent the spacing set up, With his Print setup, I would asume people walking up to him, expect to see handset type in the form.

There are People out there running Pivotal casters, what comes out is a s close to handcast as he needs it, use their products.

Here is one of the full size presses. Computer slow, will post the demo one next.

I have a LUDLOW if You are still looking?

other printing presses and equipment and access.

Mark
(770)-482-7344

Gilesprintingco I am looking for mats. Do you have any True cut Caslon, or any old style figs.

I am working with a family friend who is closing up his print shop that he ran for over 60 years. In his collection is a Ludlow Cast hot metal Type which is approximately 60 years old. It has two display cabinets with mats. It has not been used for a few years but still has all the parts and 2 display cabinets with mats. Is this the type of machine you are looking for?

I have 5 Ludlow Cabinets available. I also have a Ludlow machine left that is also available. If anyone is interested just let me know and I’ll get more specifics for you as far as model, year etc. I also have a number of casting sticks both long, short and split casting slicks. There are also self centering sticks as well as hanging racks to hold the larger casting sticks. There is a super surface I am willing to part with.
Many spare parts and supplies. Many NEW parts, heaters, blade wipes, sheer pins etc.
jjmorty